Chorister parents: help! Choristership vs ASD/ADHD disorganisation and burnout...?

[ProspectiveChoristerParent]

Should I send DS 8 to choir school?

He is a musician in every fibre of his being. It's all he wants to do, it's all he's ever wanted to do. He has grade 6 on 2 instruments (playing repertoire at diploma levels) and grade 3 in singing, and is desperately keen to become a boarding chorister at one of the college choral foundations.

As he's older than the usual audition age I've been contacting choir schools (choral foundations and cathedrals) to see if we can organise voice trials. I've sent them videos of him singing/ playing and every single one has been hugely encouraging and said his playing on both instruments is remarkable and his singing is excellent (he only started this year) and would advance very quickly if he were a chorister. So, musically it seems likely he'd get in somewhere, and have a great time.

He's also absolutely miserable, bored and disengaged with school where we are and only comes alive at music things outside school. So shifting to a college choir school would be a good move.

The problem is, he is autistic (level 1) with ADHD (inattentive). He's socially immature, he's distractible (with everything except music, where he is hyper-focused) and disorganised. Give him several intense weeks in a row and he's increasingly vague and off topic for everything except music and maths, slow eating, forgetting to go to the toilet, finding it difficult to sleep. While I think he'd adore it, I think he'd reach burnout very quickly.

Purcell, Chets, Menuhin, St Mary's would all be similarly intense.

We can't afford to send him to a good private school with loads of music, unless he's on some kind of chorister bursary.

Arggggh! What do we do?

Just had a mostly very positive cathedral DoM meeting that nearly got derailed entirely... DS8 sat there going shades of red, white and green trying not to puke on the computer (bloody supermarket popcorn with milk solids that he's allergic to) and being a bit unresponsive every time a question was asked of him. I rushed the meeting to a fast 25 minute conclusion. DoM seemed slightly unnerved by my efficiency...

The difficulty we found is that the schedule is such that if your child doesn’t board, it becomes a huge commitment for the whole family as you need to ferry them to and from rehearsals multiple times a week. We are making it work atm but I am keeping it under review!

It is prestigious being a chorister and there are financial rewards (fee discounts/stipends) that make it appealing to parents but from the perspective of the child who is signing away large parts of their childhood I’m really not sure that it’s worth it. Perhaps for a ND child whose special interest is music it’s a different calculation, but even then it’s possible to do music at a very high standard without this level of commitment.

I agree re signing away large parts of childhood... but tbh DS8 has kind of already signed them away, and where we live it's not possible to do music anywhere near the kind of level on offer in choir/ music schools. It's a difficult calculation though because while he clearly has the musical talent, and two of the better-known places are now very interested in him, I honestly don't think he'd keep up with the intensity required.

At what stage do I disclose the ASD/ADHD? I assume I'm going to have to, but preferably slightly further into the admissions process when they have some idea that they want him.

I'd disclose it now. No point wasting time with somewhere clueless with kids with additional needs.

Hopefully you'll have a response like I got once from DC's music theatre group "haha we are the designated local sanctuary for those kids! She'll fit right in!!"

Tell them straight away! Surprised you haven’t already tbh. It’s so important that they are set up to support with it because will be an actual nightmare for them (and most importantly, him) if they aren’t.

I can’t see how any boarding school will be able adequately to support an 8 yo with those needs though. His emotional health and happiness is far far more important than his musical education.

At what stage do I disclose the ASD/ADHD? I assume I'm going to have to, but preferably slightly further into the admissions process when they have some idea that they want him.

Just reading this again - it suggests you essentially want him to get in and then you’ll drop this bombshell when they’re less likely to back out? If so, that is a terrible approach. Their ability properly to care for the child he is should be absolutely front and centre of everyone’s decision making in this. If you think they will reject him/see him as less attractive a proposition brcause he has autism/adhd, then you absolutely do not want him there, surely?

Dd2 boards at a cathedral school with choristers. She has MDS as a specialist musician. It's the one specialist school you haven't mentioned - I would talk with them too unless there's any reason why you'd particularly dislike that one - they are pretty good with the neurodiverse and would be able to assess him both as a musician and a chorister - they have funding for both.

That said, I wouldn't really have wanted her boarding at a younger age. She went at Year 10.

Could I recommend Wells? Choir school and specialist music school, within the context of a broader general school, which relieves a degree of "intensity" found at other choir/specialist music schools. Lots of SEN provision, and a huge focus on pastoral care.

No, that’s not what I have in mind. Once they meet him in person it will be obvious to all that he is ND. I would start talking about support once the school admissions team is involved.

Our experience of private schools hitherto is that it’s all too easy for them to reject ND applicants for any reason they want, but once they decide to support a pupil they are usually reasonable about it. So the tricky bit is getting past the initial point of instant rejection.

But if they are the kind of school that would instantly reject a ND child, why on earth would you want to send your ND child there? It is mind-boggling.

Because as most parents of ND kids can tell you, it's somewhat more nuanced than that. If I said "oh, OK, good thing I know, I won't send him there then" to every single rejection DS has had over the years, then he'd have never left the house.

I don’t have any ND experience, I appreciate that, but I doubt this is comparable in scope to anything you’ve explored for him in the past?

Whether it’s boarding or non-boarding you are contemplating putting your very young child in the care of other adults for a massive chunk of time, away from you, in a scenario where it doesn’t sound like he will have the capacity to advocate for himself. I would have thought that their ability and desire to do their job well, for your child, would be your foremost concern in all this.

It sounds like you are banking on them thinking that he’s a good enough musician to make exceptions for him. But if they aren’t set up to meet his needs then you’re either wasting everyone’s time (best case, if they’re honest) or potentially sending your child somewhere totally wrong for him.

I have several friends who were scarred by their experiences at specialist schools which is the context to my very strong feelings on this. Even NT musicians are absolutely ripe for emotional damage in these scenarios and it is very very difficult for kids to be honest with parents if that honesty would mean pulling out of something prestigious. Pastoral care is superficially different now but a close friend teaches at a specialist school and mental health issues among the pupils are worse than ever.

Where do yiu live, my children went to a state school that has a choir school as an attached primary. Its tiny so that might be helpful?

I was going to say the same op: He's too young, particularly given his additional challenges.

I have been supportive of boarding generally on these threads, having loved it myself - and have even encouraged pp not to rule it out because of SEN issues alone without exploring how it might be managed. But there is a huge - HUGE - difference between an 8 year old and a thirteen year old. He's not even had a decade as part of a family or home unit.

Many of the choir schools also tend to have quite academic intakes as well. That might work for a very strong all-rounder, however the choristers I know do well with their music but tend to sit in the lower classes academically at these schools - either because they were accepted for their music or because the role distracts them with its demands. A pp mentioned the non-choristers being "also-rans," but my perception is that often the others are seen as the academic ones "and then there's the singers." I had one young (quite academically competitive!) pupil comment on a child we both knew when I asked after them because they had started in their class and the comment was "Oh but they only came because they are a chorister."

In so far as you feel you would manage his academic progress better, I would tend to agree.

But that aside, he's just a baby.

It's good to be ambitious for our children, but we have to keep the main game in sight - and ime scholarship-chasing frequently has parents making all sorts of decisions against their better judgment. I think you know deep-down he isn't a candidate for boarding just now.

Really interesting thread and thank you for starting it.

I was a full time cathedral chorister and my son is currently auditioning for Westminster, St Pauls and King's, so we are very much in the same world at the moment.

My own route was cathedral boarding chorister to music scholarship to conservatoire to professional musician. I loved many aspects of it and I would not change it, but I remember exactly what those environments are like. Kids can be brilliant and creative and funny. They can also be unforgiving little sh*. If someone struggles socially or cannot read the room, it can get very tough very fast. You are living on top of one another and cannot hide in a class of thirty. You are in a dorm with five or six boys who all have strong personalities and a lot of confidence. It is like a sports team. Talent matters, but so does being someone others can live happily alongside.

Every boy there is good at music. Being a grade six prodigy does not make you automatically admired. What matters is whether they gel as a group, whether they can manage the routine and whether they can laugh along with the chaos. If your son is happy in those social situations then choir school can be magical. If he finds that side overwhelming then it may be the opposite.

There are brilliant alternatives that keep the musical fire burning without the full boarding intensity. Junior departments at places like the Royal College, Academy, Guildhall or Trinity are full of exceptional young musicians and give huge opportunities while letting children stay grounded at home. Schools like Chets, Purcell and Menuhin also have great pastoral care and are very used to supporting a wide range of personalities and needs.

Your son sounds incredibly gifted and it's wonderful that music brings him so much joy. You're clearly doing everything you can to help him flourish. My suggestion would be to think just as much about whether he would have friends there as about how well he would sing. If the social side works, the music will take him to the stars. If it does not, it can be brutal.

Thanks for this measured response. In the end we pulled out of all the boarding chorister options, largely for the reasons you describe, since no, he wouldn't read the room, and no, he doesn't have the personality to get along with all the others while continuing to actually do the work (he's always the last to stop the silliness). Junior departments sound like a much better option generally...

I was just reading thinking "a junior department sounds perfect". It is another day on top of school, but my memory is that it was full of kids like your son (I was similar, as were my friends and siblings, except mostly undiagnosed as children bc it was longer ago). If you are looking at the London ones it's worth comparing the vibe, I always heard that some were more intense and competitive than others. It was the making of a lot of kids who struggled socially in school but came alive when surrounded by music and peers who wanted to talk about music.

@ProspectiveChoristerParent what did you end up doing?