Educational Psychology report - EHCP

[SENParentSupport]

We decided to pay for a private EP report as part of our daughters EHCP assessment. We received feedback today that the LA EP has agreed to use the report however wants to remove 2 elements.

The private EP has recommended dog therapy however the LA would like to remove this; they have said if the school want to fund it they can but they won't be. They would also like to reword 2:1 support in class as this will be difficult for the school to implement.

I'm a little confused, isn't the EHCP there to provide funding beyond the schools funding to support the recommended support our daughter needs... that has been advised by professionals?

Are the LA allowed to pick and choose what they like to include from the EP report even though they have said they will accept it?

What happens if we disagree and say we want those elements included as its been recommended to provide to support our daughters need.

Thank you

No wonder we have so many issues in education. I’ve worked in placing send dc and although parents might want a certain school, the LA can say which mainstream school. Not quite the same as having a choice. Some dc really dislike dogs too. What about their needs? What about classroom space for extra adults? 1:1 is not unusual 2:1 is.

Wrong again. It’s all information gathered as part of the EHCNA. This information is part of the EHCP.

When our LA tried to plonk DS1 into the enormous local comprehensive, he was going to require 2:1 support. He doesn’t have a physical disability or challenging behaviour.

The special school that he attended instead had several therapy dogs. There’s another special school near here with extensive animal therapy provision and even its own little farm.

Im not sure why what I said is 'wrong' in your view? Seems we are saying the same thing- that the appendices contain the information which informed the statutory provision. It's not the statutory provision itself but is provided for reference.

@TizerorFizz “although parents might want a certain school, the LA can say which mainstream school. Not quite the same as having a choice.”

this is yet more misinformation. The LA has to name in line with parental preference unless it meets one of the conditions in s39(4) CAFA

@CatkinToadflax Yes. Special schools. My argument entirely. Not mainstream. There is no automatic right to the preferred mainstream school of parents. I bet many heads would find very bounced by La with this admission.

although parents might want a certain school, the LA can say which mainstream school. Not quite the same as having a choice.

For non-wholly independent schools, the LA must name the parent’s preferred school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
The bar to do this is higher than LAs and many schools admit.

Some dc really dislike dogs too. What about their needs?

That is fine. They won’t be in the AAT session. Just like my 2 DC who are allergic to dogs wouldn’t be.

What about classroom space for extra adults? 1:1 is not unusual 2:1 is.

Yes, 2:1 is unusual. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. It does. If the LA can prove the high bar for incompatibility, the school won’t be named. The problem is LAs and many schools don’t realise the bar is higher than they think.

The young people I have seen who require 2:1 other than those with medical/physical needs (which would not be part of an EP's provision, as falling under the health aspect of a plan) have all been incredibly hard to place- and that includes within highly specialised placements.

That may be the cases you have experienced, but it doesn’t apply to all.

It depends on the individual circumstance. Sometimes 2:1 for medical &/or physical needs is SEP rather than HCP. Even when it is HCP, it is sometimes deemed SEP because, legally, HCP that educates or trains is actually SEP, and therefore should be in F rather than G.

2:1 in and of itself doesn’t necessarily make a child difficult to place. Obviously, for some, the needs meaning they require 2:1 may make it hard (or impossible) to find a suitable placement. For others, their needs don’t mean it is hard to find a suitable placement.

My DS wasn’t particularly hard to place, the LA just didn’t want to pay for specialist independent. Therefore they were prepared to fund 2:1 support at the local comprehensive instead.

A lot of even mainstream schools have a therapy dog these days.
atleast a lot around the area where i live do.
my son goes to a special school and they have a therapy dog, and other animals e.g they have a snake that they use in ELSA sessions with the kids. They'd also be able to easily enough accommodate 2:1 and this isn't a high needs setting. Not sure why some people think these are impossible things to provide.

Special Independent is not the same as LA special. The money spent impacts on other dc and LAs need more special schools

It doesn’t matter if it is a state SS or an independent SS, 2:1 and AAT can still be funded.

Regardless of the placement and other DC, the LA is responsible for ensuring the SEP in F is provided.

For all types of schools (including maintained, academy, free, NMSS, section 41 independents) other than wholly independent schools, there are limited reasons the LA can lawfully refuse to name the parental preference.

My child had equine therapy funded by the LA, so I'm not sure why you think it's so ridiculous

What do you mean they can come from anyone? I would expect an LA to disregard a private assessment from someone unqualified. That doesn’t mean a report from, for example, a qualified educational psychologist should be disregarded!

It’s interesting because our council will not accept private assessments only NHS ones probably for this reason- they offer all the things that are needed but no responsibility of funding. 2:1 support might not reflect the funding your child has been given as there are different tiers.

however in my experience the council will do anything to reduce and make the points as cost effective as possible.

the ECHO for my son said as much to a friend of mine not realising that we were linked. Which as we know making decisions based on cost is completely illegal.

Why does your child need 2:1?
I am an EP and have only recommended that in situations beyond specialist where a young person is a danger to themselves or others, or in one case where an autistic child had misinterpreted a number of situations and accused adults of things (eg ran headlong into an adult, then accused the adult of hitting them in the head) for the safety of those adults.

The problem is that certain recommendations make settings unsuitable. For example if the report specifies the child must be taught be an autism specialist teacher, as in one private report I read, this then made the mainstream independent school parents wanted unsuitable. It may be that 2:1 makes many schools unsuitable. It would certainly enormously raise staff anxiety wrt your child and how they can meet their needs.

who defines what qualification is acceptable and what isn't? There are tens of thousands of psychology graduates in the UK, it is one of the most popular degree subjects. Would you accept a report from any of them? Are you only counting people registered with HCPC in the UK? What if the child has been assessed by someone from a different country? or a different educational philosophy? or a different religious organisation? Would you accept an assessment from a HCPC registered individual who's discipline was in something other than the specialism the assessment was done in, or someone registered but qualified with a diploma, or someone not registered but with two doctorates in the specialism? How would you judge the awarding body of the doctorates? how would you judge the assessment of someone "qualified" but who doesn't speak English, or how would you judge the assessment done by someone "qualified" but unable to communicate with the child in the child's own language, or an assessment written in another language, or written by al alternative practitioner, or written by a medical specialist rather than a psychologist, if that specialism is irrelevant, or the qualifications impossible to verify........

And again, what if a child has several assessments from people you consider suitably qualified by whatever measure, and the assessments contradict each other.

Schools can be inundated with private assessments and it can be totally impossible to even keep up with reading them, let alone assessing the merits of the assessors.

I think you are massively over complicating it. Bottom line is CAMHS are a shit show with ridiculous waiting lists which are forcing parents to go private for assessments. These should be taken into account unless there is good reason not to. Diagnosis and assessment letters have on them the details of who did the assessment and any registrations and qualifications. That should be sufficient. And you don’t need to check language issues. A professional would be able to assess themselves whether they could complete an assessment where there is a language barrier.

When CAMHS starts to provide some sort of reasonable service then perhaps an LA can start being picky about assessments. But having little to no adequate CAMHS and then refusing to consider private assessments is leaving parents, and more importantly children, in no man’s land.

And I didn’t say schools should be reading assessments, but a LA certainly should when deciding on an EHCP.

This is so dramatic I don't even know where to start. Psychology and other practicing professionals are registered with their appropriate body. If they're not they shouldn't be practicing! I'm not sure why you think religion comes into it? What does 'assessed by a different religious organisation' even mean? Why would anyone need to have their send needs assessed by anyone religious? And of course no one would accept advice from someone going out of their lane in terms of their professional qualifications. If they're not qualified to assess the need you don't accept it, it's not rocket science.

I am talking from my own experience, yes, we do get assessments from staff from religious schools and so on, and as to "going out of their own lane" that is impossible to judge. People make all sorts of claims.

You can't just do a psychology degree and call yourself an educational psychologist... any educational psychologist is qualified because if they weren't, they wouldn't be an educational psychologist. So they will have done a 3 year doctorate in educational psychology, so yes there reports and assessments should be taken into account.
No one is paying random unqualified people to write reports- where would they even find these people??
repoets almost always come from educational psychologists, occupational therapists (again, qualified professionals)
when people pay for private autism or adhd assessments for their kids, they pretty much always make sure they are following NICE guidelines because no one is trying to through thousands of pounds down the drain.

that is impossible to judge

No, it isn’t. The courts do it every day. LAs also make judgements about what they perceive as within the remit of professionals daily - though they don’t always do it correctly.

Some organisations who run faith schools also run assessment services/centres. That doesn’t make all their reports invalid. The professionals working there are still professionals. The courts still consider their evidence. So should LAs.

No it's not. If they're not qualified and registered to comment on whatever they're assessing/giving advice on, you don't take it. I don't understand what's so difficult? If as a parent I can work out an OT shouldn't be commenting on what SaLT support a child needs I'm sure school staff can figure it out.

ITA. DD1 was comprehensively assessed for a place at a non maintained residential specialist school - by a teacher, OT, physiotherapist, SALT, specialist nurse and the care staff. The school was Catholic, but that doesn’t make the reports by the professionals invalid, seeing as they stuck to their areas of expertise? I thought they were quite good actually.

I am confused by this idea LA officers have, that parents can pay independent professionals to write what the parents want? Say the independent educational psychologist had a 6 month waiting list, they can pick and choose who they see? Why would they compromise their reputation as a professional Tribunal witness, when they can just refuse any set of parents who try to tell them what to write, and see the next parents on the list? Why kill the golden goose?

Also, say an independent professional does a range of standard assessments like WISC 5 (or whatever are they on now), CELF, Test of Word Finding, etc, the results are appended to the report - if a child scores on the first percentile, the professional would look stupid, if they tried to say the child is good on say verbal IQ, because that’s what the parents wanted? Or is @Lemniscate8 saying independent professionals forge the child’s test results? I for one watched all DD1’s independent assessments, and I saw how badly she did on every one - mostly she was on the first percentile at everything. All the specialist schools, who assessed her for a place would have told us, if their OT, SALT, physio, etc disagreed with my independent professional assessments.

We won a tribunal, where they accepted medical needs were SEP, because DD1 was in no fit state to learn without those provisions - which was spelt out in the consultant psychiatrist’s report.