Comp, grammar or private school?

[RobEmily]

We live in a grammar area and I feel immense pressure to start making some decisions about what we are aiming for with my daughter who is just finishing year 3 as a result.

Our closest school for girls is in the top 10 nationally and for lots of reasons I have ruled out - I don’t think my daughter would get in nor from what I know of it do I think it would be the right environment for her.

We then live quite far from other grammars, so I understand our distance would make getting into those a bit harder as those closer with the same score would get precedence.

In any case, I’m not sure my daughter would pass the 11+. She has just received a dyslexic diagnosis - this seems to mainly impact her spelling and some long term memory for spelling and times tables etc. She works hard at school and is determined to enjoy reading. As a result, she achieved expected in all areas in her report this year, other than GPS but that was because of the spelling, her grammar is actually good. She is a slow reader.

She scored very highly on non verbal and a good score on verbal reasoning skills in the dyslexic test - she’d never done these sorts of tests before.

My thoughts are therefore to pass the 11+ would require a lot of tutoring and I’m not sure I think is the best approach as she might then struggle when there.

She also finds tests very stressful - so I’m not sure sitting and failing the 11+ would be helpful.

Our closest comp is average but on an open day I really didn’t like the approach by the teachers and discipline I witnessed. I’ve heard they have good dyslexic support and they have good sports facilities. Lots of her friends will go here.

We would like to move to the area with a wider choice of grammar schools but can’t find any comps we like with a house nearby that we like if she didn’t make grammar / we opt not to do. They always seem to fall out of the catchment - especially if we could also feasibly still get my daughter back to her current school, which we would very much like to be able to do.

We could move for a well rated girls comp in the other direction to we really want to move, but I’m not sure where our younger son would then go. Also, the facilities aren’t amazing there and my daughter is very in to art and sport.

The last option is private school - she’d still need to sit tests to get in but they would be easier. I’m
unsure if these would be better for her with the dyslexia or not ie smaller class sizes… with this option we possibly would still be able to move house, but it would limit what we would be able to spend on the move.

We have fully costed the private, with annual fee rises expected and can do it with sacrifices ie less spent on the house, holidays, etc.

Wondering what others would do? Anything I haven’t considered?

I would rule out grammar for a child who is scoring “expected” at primary school. The competition for grammars these days is immense.

Oh yes, the vast majority of secondary schools in England are now academies, most of which are part of chains. Those chains do however vary widely in how much control they exert, and the attitudes to education that they may have.

@RobEmily I might have confused you completely - apologies if I have.
I just wanted to say that going to the effort of moving house for a specific school has it risks as schools change (as your daughter has 3 years to go yet).
In the last 5 years or so schools in my area have gone from being LA schools to joining an Academy Trust. Some changed from one Trust to a completely different one. Gone from being very traditional to less so (and vice versa).
You could spend a lot of money to move so she could go to "Nice Small Happy School" but next year it could join a trust and become a horrible military strict style one.
You can still move....but not yet.
It's too risky.
In my personal opinion 🙂

Newstead is a super selective and a bit of a hothouse atmosphere.

If you can afford independent for both kids then I’d consider Farringtons in Chislehurst. Good for nurturing and not a hot house. You can always reassess for 6th form and enter for the grammars then. If you live in the Bromley borough then the Dartford, Kent and Bexley grammars may be open to you

Is Darrick Wood not an option or is that the school you weren’t keen on? There are also the girls schools in Chislehurst.

Yes I agree most secondary schools are now academies - there is only one LA-run secondary in my area. That doesn’t mean they are specialists tho, as I see Needmorelego agrees.

I taught at a specialist tech school - everyone took a tech subject at GCSE - but that specialism was dropped in about 2011 IIRC as @PatriciaHolm points out.

Btw schools offering banding tests are still comprehensive – the banding test is to ensure that they take a % across the ability range so definitely not a way of selecting the top-performing students. There is one in my area that does a banding test and it is very popular, and oversubscribed and AFAIK gives good outcomes.

@clary I found the banding test a bit confusing because it means the school has to take a % of children from each band - which I assume overrides the main admission criteria (after siblings etc) as distance from school.
I think.....like I said - confusing.
Oh how I wish every school was completely equal in quality and children just go to their nearest one.

tbf the school local to me that uses banding doesn't have distance as a criterion, nor does it have a catchment (apart from prioritising a certain area of the inner city), so your chances are genuinely open. Tho I think they now have sibling priority.

Cannot argue with your last sentence!

Depends on the area. I live, parent AND teach in deepest East Kent, and I can assure you this is not the case here. In fact several grammars are undersubscribed and rely on non-qualification appeals to get enough bums on seats.

And yet many heavily oversubscribed schools retain selection criteria related to their no-longer-specialisms, e.g.,

• Grey Coat Hospital offer places without religion or distance restrictions based on "Language Aptitude"
• Camden School for Girls do the same for "Musical Aptitude"
• St Marylebone School do the same for "Performing Arts Aptitude"

It doesn't sound like your DD is Grammar material, that not an insult my DS ceratinly wasn't either.
We chose Private because our State Secondary is failing (I am a Governor there) and has a LOT of issues around attainment/behaviour and DD would have not thrived there at all.
If your State option is good then go with that and move her if necessary I would say

Yes, we wouldn’t do it unless we know we could do it for both. Their age difference means we will only have two years where we would definitely have to pay for both of them (unless she stayed for sixth for which would mean 4yrs paying twice), but we are saving already so we should have 4-5 years worth of fees set aside before she starts, which would then cover the overlap. If we moved, we would have to rely on grandparents to cover one child, which they are willing to do.

Unfortunately moving outside of Kent / south east London isn’t an option due to work, wanting to keep my kids at their current primary but most importantly of all to stay close to my parents as my dad isn’t well.

I would call Newstead a major hothouse yes, particularly when compared with Kent grammars, but yes my gut says grammar wouldn’t suit her.

My son is one reason we wont just move for the girls state school nearby. But we have assumed we would send him private too if we go down that route. Although way too early to tell if he would be grammar material or not.

True, but I would estimate finding a house we like, selling ours, moving etc will all take 12-18m and you apply to schools so early in year 6. She’s going into year 4 in Sept so I’d say we have max 12 months to make a decision.

Thanks - yes moving outside of south east London / Kent isn’t an option unfortunately.

Not sure where you are located, but we’re in Bromley borough and so most kids are not local that go to the local grammar near us either actually. But yes looks like v different system if we moved to Kent. Interesting re your experience of SEN in private school, thanks for sharing. I’ve had to fight for support for my daughter too in state though as she “ticks all the boxes” in terms of being expected level but I don’t feel they look at the whole picture.

Unfortunately moving out to south east London or North Kent isn’t an option for the reason you mention

Thank you - I had ruled out Newstead before she even started school tbh for other reasons… but now I know she also wouldn’t get in and wouldn’t suit her so 1000% would never even consider it!

North Kent is what we are looking at.

I don’t think I’d heard of Gads Hill thanks, will check it out

Yes thanks, I’d mentioned Newstead but as somewhere we would never consider.

We’ve looked at Farringtons, we liked it but have heard v mixed reviews and understand their teachers were striking recently?

Yes Darrick is where I felt the discipline was completely lacking. Open to other view points if you know it though?

That’s interesting thanks - so you think because it is a grammar area the standard in the grammar is lower?

Must Kent grammars have a catchment area. Are you in these?

There's a really good website which may be able to help you.

elevenplusexams.co.uk

Most people get tutor from start of year 5. Year 4 is a tad early.

Newstead is in Orpington There are some great comprehensives in the area. Charles Darwin School and Darrick Wood are excellent. From what I've heard Bullers Wood is really good too. I would avoid Harris though.

Personally, I’ve heard mixed things about Darrick and Charles Darwin. Better about Darrick, but maybe I’ve just lived in the area too long!

DC1 came out of Charles Darwin fairly recently with outstanding A Levels. DC2 had a lot of problems which later turned out to be undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia and the pastoral care was second to none. DC2 also got very decent A Levels despite everything.

Why would you push your child into an overtly academic hotbed if she would struggle, which you claim in the OP she would? Please don’t push a ‘non-academic child’; I hate that term as no child should be deemed to be or not to be academic, but it’s best described what I needed it to; onto an academic pathway. Let them learn at their own pace, without mummy and daddy needing to look like good middle-class parents, and overwhelming their child by pushing them more than what is currently capable of them at this particular point in time. All this will do is develop MH issues within your child (trust me, I’ve seen it happen.)

If you want to send your child to private school and it’s the best option for them, then do that- but please don’t expect any sympathy for “cutting back on holidays”, as some families are never able to go on holiday and won’t ever be able to send their child to private school either.

And I am going to say it: the majority of parents in the country have no choice where they send their child to school, they are stuck with there catchment comp (regardless on how suitable is for their child) and are made to get on with it, or homeschool: but that comes with its own, issues such as will parents still be able to work, and if so how?- so it still out of the question for many families (and that’s not including those who disagree with it, for various reasons).