In year moves - is it always this hard?

[Magnificentkitteh]

I'm looking at other options for my dd1 who is about to finish year 9. Her current school is struggling on various fronts and the final nail in the coffin is they can't accommodate her twin passion of art and history at GCSE, which she's properly gutted about.

The trouble is I can't find anyone to talk to about what options any potential new school could accommodate. We are in London and my search is straddling several boroughs. The council admission teams have generally been helpful at helping me identify potential schools but obviously for more detailed questions they refer me to the schools themselves and I'm getting nowhere with my approach of emailing and asking for an appointment to discuss.

I won't hear whether we have actually been allocated a place at any school until after term ends which is why I'm so keen to find out some information in advance so we can make an informed decision before accepting. Part of me feels the lack of responsiveness is a red flag but it also seems to be universal. Can anyone advise? One of the potential schools has a summer fair on today and I'm thinking of turning up and seeing if I can find anyone to chat to. Is that wise?

Alternatively if anyone has any tips about how to persuade her current school to let her do art I'd be grateful too. Her art teacher seems quite shocked but is getting the same computer says no response from the head of year. That might be because there are so many parents in a similar boat and they're working through the issues but that in itself has shaken my already faltering confidence in the school, as the timetable for options allocation has slipped massively and none of the promised conversations have happened.

Does the current school have an expectation that students do geography or history? Many schools require one or the other in order to get as many boxes ticked for the English Baccalaureate (don't worry about what that is, not really relevant). If they do require geography or history then often they are scheduled in the same block in the timetable (i.e. while some of yr10 are doing history others are doing geography). This should then leave art in a separate options block. Have a look on websites for their GCSE requirements and see whether it says that students must do history or geography.

Also it is worth bearing in mind that history is one of the subjects where it is often possible to do A level even if you haven't done GCSE.

Have you looked on their websites at option blocks? I looked at GCSE “options booklets” when looking at secondary schools for my DD last year. From memory they all had them somewhere on the website. If not, I’d just ask admissions teams at each school if they can send you a copy.

They generally make it clear how the options are blocked so you can see whether, for eg, taking two languages or both history and geography or indeed history and art would be possible.

Just to add, most schools were fairly flexible. There’s one near us though which only offered history OR geography, and only one language or one arts subject.

Thanks for the replies already. Her current school is in a bit of a state and they seem to have moved the options blocks around since they were published. History is in more than one block so it seems less of a timetable clash and more that art is full, and they use a random allocation system rather than prioritising subjects by passion or ability.

They recommended ebacc but her best friend who really wanted languages hasn't been given one. Whole thing is quite shocking but this isn't the first issue of this kind, we've sort of got used to it in a boiled frog way.

New schools list the options but not the blocks and obviously we'd be squeezing in last minute so some subjects may already be full. Can they squeeze in the odd extra? Would they for a new joiner if there isn't a timetable clash, do you think?

Added complication is that one of the schools says they start teaching the GCSE syllabus in year 9 or even 8. Does that mean they won't want my DD to join at beginning of y10 even if they have a space?

Sorry for random brain dump. Finding it all quite stressful. Dd1 has ADHD and autism and she has strong passions. Art has been her emotional regulation tool since she was little and she loves visiting galleries at the weekend etc. She loves history too and begged to be taken to Rome on holiday. I'm really upset for her.

the school I used to work at started teaching gcse content in year 9.

yes, it will mean they don’t want a new student in year 10.

most schools won’t to be honest, the options timetabling process is a bloody nightmare at the best of times and new joiners into year 10 after most of the process is done will generally not always be able to get their first choices.

Don't turn up at a summer fair and expect to have a serious discussion about subject availability, that will make you look like a pain in the backside, because all the teachers will be busy looking after the kids doing non-normal activities which will probably be more stressful than normal school!

In terms of whether they could fit in a new joiner, it would depend on whether they are at PAN for her year group and how many people each option can physically take. You have to just talk to the school. Schools will vary as to how many classes they have for each option and how full they could get those classes. Obviously for something like art, the children will all need space to work so the art class size will probably physically restricted. Whether they could fit your daughter in simply depends on how many art classes run for GCSE art and how big they are. Yes it's not ideal that she joins in year 10 if the GCSEs start in year 9, but to expect that there will NEVER be a reason for a child to move schools between the start of year 9 and the end of their GCSE exams is unrealistic. whether she could get the choices she wants just depends.

Obviously I wasn't going to expect to have the serious conversation then and there but just say something like "my DD has applied to your school and I sent an email, did you get it, would it be possible to have a chat before term ends?". It will also be an opportunity to check out the school and its community so I'm not only going with that in mind. Sometimes I find you are only memorable if you have a face to go with the name.

I'm trying to speak to the school, that's the issue. And I understand they might not want people joining but not sure how much choice they get if there's a space which they have told admissions there is? That was my question really. And presumably it affects funding but don't know whether that tips the balance.

Obviously I don't want to make myself a massive pain but I do want to do right by my DD and I'm running out of time before term ends.

Also our school fair is run by the PTA. There might be the odd teacher floating about to be supportive but not actually running the tombola or whatever. Is that not normal?

Since the final straw is her not being able to do both art and history you really do need to be sure she could do both in a new school before you move her. It is the end of term and most schools will be busy and not want to talk to a speculative parent until a firm offer has been made.

I think your options this side of the school holidays are a bit limited. Once you have an offer from a school you can go and visit and check she can do the GCSE options that she wants to do.

In the meantime use the time to keep the pressure on her current school to allow her to do both. I'm a bit confused is it that she can do either art or history or is she not being allowed to do either?

I would think a school that has started GCSE a year early wouldn't be the right school and probably wouldn't accept her so it would be better to focus on finding one that offers a two year course.

If your daughter has autism only you will know if a school move (new people and surroundings) will be in her best interest or if it would be best to stay where she knows, even if that means not doing Art or history.

A third option could be doing one of the subjects outside of school hours. I did this with music GCSE.

I would think history would be easier (and cheaper) than Art. You should be able to find an online GCSE course for history. Art would be more time consuming and expensive. There are some courses near me in West London that go up to 16 (portfolio work, comics etc) they are not part of a GCSE course but would continue to develop her art. The only fly in the ointment with this (apart from the cost) is that she would probably be made to do two GCSE options in school that don't interest her and take up her time.

The best scenario by September would be to get what you want from her current school but also to have an offer or two from potential schools, to see if a move might be possible.

I'm going to DM you what I would do...

Good luck

This is an insanely busy time of year for most secondaries. Teachers are setting and marking end of year exams and many trips, sports days, and lots of enrichment stuff happens around now.

in addition senior staff will be trying to get stuff sorted for September as much as possible, will be running transition days for the year sixes coming up, dealing with all the “I don’t want my child to be in a class with that child” as well as a training day for new staff, trying to sort last minute tweaks to the timetable for September, sorting staffing for September if new members of staff have dropped out etc.

most departments are also trying to do the setting and grouping for September based on the end of year exams and (hopeful!) staffing that they have for September. That alone takes up hours and hours and hours.

if your DD has applied for their school their thinking is likely to be that they’ll sort her options in September if she turns up.

it is very very common in most schools that students don’t get all of their options choices. In fact my most recent one changed the whole process so that it was options preferences and you specifically had to rank the choices and give a back up.

the chance that you get to see a senior member of staff at this time of year and they’ll commit to giving your child her options choices is very low.

It's the PTA, so yes teachers will be volunteering and fully involved.

Sounds very frustrating but random allocation is the only fair way - how would you fairly judge passion?

Could she continue art with classes after school?

I completely agree with this. I would no way be moving her, unless you're completely desperate and the school is causing her significant issues. Over an options clash? No way. Investigate doing the GCSE (art or history) independently from the school.

Not sure what the relevance is of this?

At my school the summer anf christmas fair is run by both parents and teachers but I guess predominantly parents. Not an issue - it's brilliant and a brilliant school.

It could be that a school that has a place would simply put your daughter into options where there are spaces and that she wouldn’t necessarily get any of the options she prefers.

Just that a PP said that teachers would be stressed trying to manage kids at a fair and I was wondering if that's the case because I obviously wouldn't approach them if so

As others say, it’s not unusual not to get all your GCSE option prefs and random allocation seems the fairest way tbh – I never heard of a school that allocated according to passion – how would you measure that?

IME most DC get their prefs (mine all did and most if not all of their friends) but obvs not always. Has another student really not been allowed to take MFL? That’s very odd. History (or geog) as others say is one of the subjects strongly encouraged by schools, so it does sound to me more as if there is not space for her in art – which is obviously possible, it’s a popular subject. IMO a candidate likely to gain a 3/4 has as much right to take it as one who will gain 8/9.

None of that helps you much!

You need to target your approach if possible. It is a busy time and not many days left of term but I would try and get a call in to a school that looks likely and ask them about options and whether art is possible. You certainly need to establish if she can do both before you move. I would ignore any school that starts GCSE work in year 9 (or year 8??? What???) as it will be too much for her to catch up across the board – Eng lit texts may be started, science topics too, etc.

For all those reasons and those adduced by others it really might be best to stay where she is – can you negotiate and ask about dropping another choice instead? It’s not totally clear from your posts – is she being offered history and not art? Or is she having to choose? If the latter, I agree that picking up history outside school might be better; art GCSE very hard to do from home. If she is being offered history and art is definitely a no then maybe a move is a good plan.

The chance of finding the right person to say this to at the school fair is tiny. I think you'd honestly just be a nuisance. It's not information that people who don't deal with admissions will easily be able to do anything with, especially not at a school fair when they aren't at computers or anything. The this is you need quite specific information, it's not just do they have space in year 10:

• it's do they do these options?
• are those options blocked in such a way she could do them all?
• are there actually spaces in the classes for all those options?
• potentially also a cross reference between Qs 2+3 because there may be some options that appear in 2 blocks and so that's more complicated.

If you want her to change schools and be shoved into whatever options have space, the school fair might work, if not, it won't!

Thank you everyone. I am not moving her over an options clash there's quite a long back story that I don't really want to get into here but nor am I going to accept that she's not doing art without a fight any more than her friends ' parents are shrugging off music and languages. She has got a place for history. I don't know why she's not been given art. There was no clash on the advertised blocks and she gave back up choices for all her subjects but has been given something random. I think it would be quite easy to judge passion if they'd had the promised conversations because she'd have compromised on almost anything to get art and history but they didn't happen due to "staffing issues" according to their letter which doesn't fill me with confidence.

It's where to direct my energies that I'm struggling with as it's obviously a battle on two or more fronts. I don't even want a battle, just a chat with someone who has the info I need. It doesn't feel that unreasonable given the council has said the school has two places and we are first in line. And if they say look it'll be a nightmare then obviously I can use that info to inform my response as well. But obviously she's been in school studying these subjects so it's not like she's be starting entirely from scratch if she moved but I could perhaps do some catch up with her over the summer if I know where she stands.

Really thank you to @Lazytiger for your thoughtful reply. That's kind of what I wanted from the thread, some help breaking things down for me and tips with where to go next as I'm getting myself stressed and frustrated.

Does she have any idea what she wants to do long term? Because unless she's eyeing up fine art, I wouldn't be keen on moving her - art can be done outside of school, without a GCSE.

I felt my art GCSE was rather a waste - it's likely the syllabus has changed, but mine was far more about ideas and not much about technique or the history of art. I had fun (and got a decent grade), but I didn't feel I learnt or developed much. I have done some art classes at evening classes as an adult, and I go to lots of art exhibitions these days. Even with the massive cuts in adult education, it's far more accessible out of school than other subjects.

I read history at uni, so I understand that passion. Some people were allowed to do A-level history without having done GCSE, as long as they had good grades in another essay subject, e.g. Eng Lit. I don't know if schools allow that now.

But if it were me, I'd keep her where she is and do art as a hobby.

I'm going to the fair anyway as it is a good opportunity to get a feel for the school. And to those asking it is my DD who wants to move schools and has weighed up the pros and cons very thoughtfully. She still might not if staying put is overall the best option. But even to find out what your options are involves a lot of emotional energy as you basically have to have an offer on the table or even turn up in September having joined the school in order to speak to anyone.

Thanks ebearhug. That's really sensible advice and part of me thinks it's the best option but this really isn't the only issue. Her current school seems to be in a bit of a death spiral sadly and all this is a symptom of the issue rather than the only issue. This week there were a couple of lessons where she didn't have a teacher at all, and there have been a series of disappointments over cancelled plays, D of E etc. It's not something either of us take lightly because in many ways I think the school has a lot going for it, but we are not the only ones having to make difficult decisions.

You're welcome.
I understand your daughter is upset but the issue of cover teachers, canceling plays etc etc is more common than you think! You will struggle to find a school (even private) that doesn't do daily battle. What goes on behind the scenes at most schools would have most parents running for the hills. It's not right. But it's not uncommon.

By all means speak to other schools but you will need to do this on September 1st when they reopen. Your daughter can either be slotted into her chosen subjects or can't. Easier said than done, but there is really no point worrying about it now.

If you are set on going to visit one particular school then go to the office, in person, and ask to make an appointment to see the head or a deputy head. If that is 'no' then ask if there is a dedicated person in admin who knows next years timetable/numbers and would be able to meet with you to discuss if there would be availability (pending an offer of a place) just so you know it is worth 'bothering them' with offering a place you then wouldn't accept. You may still get a 'no' and if so you'll just have to accept that until September.

If, on the whole it is a decent school and she is happy then I would keep up the pressure on her current school to offer her Art but look now in the wider community to find arts classes which will probably be a lot more fun than the GCSE. I know a few kids have done GCSE Art, as it is a less academic subject, but found it's was a massive amount of work, twice the time of other GCSE. They loved it, of course, but it took time away from the core subject that they needed to focus on.

If you think Art is a subject at A level she would want to study and that is why you are panicking I suggest contacting a few A level colleges and asking them if they take students without GCSE but with a portfolio created outside of the school. You could get started on this over the summer with a few courses.
There is always an alternative, GCSEs aren't the be all and end all. Plenty of better courses out there!

Great post from @Lazytiger esp wrt art A level without GCSE.

The thing about starting in year 10 in a school that starts GCSE work in year 9 @Magnificentkitteh is not that she has been studying these subjects already – for sure she has. With things like Eng lang or maths it may not be such a problem.

It’s more about, to take an example I know about, MFL: there will be specific GCSE topics covered that she probably will not have done as part of KS3 work, which will not be redone. Or Eng lit: the school may have already covered (say) A Christmas Carol in year 9 and not plan to revisit it until year 11 revision; your DD will not (probably) have done this GCSE text in KS3 so will be struggling. Same for history topics, science topics I guess, etc. Working over the summer to catch up is going to be challenging.

Is the school with the summer fair the one with spaces – and does it start GCSE work in year 9? If so there is also the issue of joining a class already running which is less likely to have space in popular subjects.

Anyway the way forward for you is to try to find out I guess. That’s not something we can know about – just PPs are trying to point up some of the issues. Hoping you sort it out for your DD.

Thank you, good idea about contacting colleges, and doorstep ping the school was next on my list. It's my day off on Monday.

I understand about cover teachers. This was no teacher at all twice in one week. There is a serious question mark about the longevity of the school which has been confirmed by a friend who is a councillor. I don't think I'm overreacting. Two of her friends are being pulled out to go to online school. I don't want that for my DD. Nor can I afford to go private. But I can afford to put a bit of effort into finding her a good alternative. I'm also keeping up the pressure on her current school but they know we have applied elsewhere as they had to sign a release form for us to be added to waiting lists so I don't know how seriously they'll take me. Hopefully reasonably seriously as they don't want her to leave, but their inbox has just blown up with upset parents and they just keep sending blanket responses saying they're investigating.

Yes exactly, thanks. Those are the questions I'm trying to find out the answers to and finding it very frustrating not to be able to chat to someone about. The curriculum for the school that has places does seem to start in y9 for some subjects but I don't know which ones or how many. And there's an alternative school that might be more flexible (also less high performing though) but they haven't responded to my question about options either.