The way parents, current and prospective, talk about teachers on here is sometimes vile

[YokohamaSapphire]

This is a message from a previous thread about a new HMC incoming headmaster
"He is an unpopular choice among students and parents. So unpopular that on Instagram whenever he appears a host of students and parents comment so negatively they have to switch the comments off. Best mates with the current head - wonder how he got the job? My advice would be to abandon ship now before Celine Dion starts piping up…"

I know nothing about the person in question. I do know that as a teacher ( I left now) there were known WhatsApp groups of parents (usually mothers) slagging off and gossiping about teachers, trying to get their child in or not in teachers groups, personal gossip, passing on rumours from children about them. I just want to say it is people like these who make no-one sane want to teach. A subset of private school parents are possibly the worst; entitled, obsessive, untrusting and think the teachers can do no right. Maybe when there is nobody left to teach at all and they're forced to homeschool they'll regret their appalling behaviour

You need to feel sorry for these chumps, most of them have inherited their wealth and are nepo babies that are put in a senior role without the brains or experience so thick as mince. It’s the same in state schools, parents who are working pretty shit jobs who don’t have the same education level as teachers are complaining. Nothing you can really do. Parents love to complain when it comes to their kids, they don’t realise that little Timmy isn’t actually a little genius like they think and is falling behind but somehow it’s the teachers fault. It’ll come to a point where there is such a teacher shortage they’ll have to hire from other countries, which is going to go down great with all the posh Tory Reform voters 😉

I would have to wonder why he was so unpopular though. Academy chains have taken a lot of parental power and accountability away and there are some real egomaniacs running them, and there are far too many expensive layers of management. The state secondary school system became an omnishambles with the last government and will take decades to fix. So glad we are out the other side of it now.

Not all teachers are saints

Not all parents are saints

You don't become unpopular by doing nothing

Exactly. I’ve heard several people on MN, who claim to be teachers, state that they don’t like some of the children that they teach/taught. Also, that they are aware of children who were academically bright enough to be in the top sets but were not moved up (in some cases were placed in the bottom) for reasons, unrelated to their abilities.
So, no, not all teachers are worthy of our reverence. My DC haven’t yet reached school age but already I am under no illusion that all teachers are deserving of their titles.

Everyone everywhere is vile about everything tbh

In what profession will 100% of those in it be competent? Yes, there will be some teachers who don't like some of their students. Some of those will have good reason. If you think it's an easy job, or a soft touch, you could always become one yourself

You don't become unpopular by doing nothing

If you do nothing you make nothing. Doing nothing is nowhere near good enough. Teachers need to make sure children can learn in school. And that means sanctioning poor behaviour and being hated by the parents of poorly behaved children.

In my experience there’s a very vocal but small group of parents who hate teachers with standards. I’d say 1% of parents hate me. I don’t care cos 99% of children learn more in my class. But the haters are loud. They make the news. They hound good but inexperienced teachers out.

We do need to acknowledge that some teachers aren’t good enough though. But if it’s a choice between poor teachers and no adult at all then schools will have poor teachers. Which is why we need to stop the angry parents driving out good teachers.

That’s not the point and you're creating your own narrative to try to make a valid one. You’re complaining about how some parents talk about some teachers. You fail to recognise that their feelings may be justified.
Furthermore, I’m quite happy with the work that I do so have no need to retrain to become a teacher. Although as a parent I am my DC’s first educator. That’s the greatest job, and I do it with competence.

By admitting that some teachers aren’t competent (in various ways) then you also have to accept that parents will complain about their incompetence.

Some teachers are crap. They simply are.
Some parents will complain over anything and everything.
Both minorities make things shit for everyone.

Obviously social media has made this worse. We all knew who the poor teachers were but we gossiped at the school gate. We prayed our dc avoided some teachers! No one wrote anything on a chat group.

One problem is that schools sometimes do not do enough to remove the worst teachers. They can start competence procedures but frequently don’t have the balls to do it and dc end up being failed. This should be called out. Ofsted usually nail it.

Awful parents and poor teachers aren’t a great mix but professionals have to earn respect. The majority manage it.

Another poor and self-regarding post. In yiur role as a parent you don't get regular observations, including without notice. You don't get people emailing you at all hours about all sorts. You don't need to deal with the emotional problems of 25plus developing human beings all day long. Just because there are some justified complaints about teachers (which I never denied) doesn't mean many more hound teachers with potential out of the profession. I wonder if any of the Merlor swilling whatsapp bullies ever gave any thought to the effect their dreadful behaviour has on others?

There's a thread currently running on MN bitching about a named headteacher, making fun of him and suggesting that he has had an affair.

Reported to MNHQ but still left standing.

@YokohamaSapphire In many PAID jobs you get all of that! Parents are not paid professional parents with qualifications.

@noblegiraffe Some teachers definitely should not be teachers. That applies to nearly every profession. Square pegs etc. At least teachers have a nice summer to recover. All my teaching friends have lovely long plans! They aren’t complained about though because they are good.

Finally, you recognise that there could be some justification. You suggested previously that there are incompetent teachers but up until now you seemed to believe that these teachers should be appeased. I mean, how dare a parent whose child suffers the effects of their teacher’s incompetency talk about said teacher in less than favourable terms.
If I’m honest if my DC were subjected to a teacher that took so long to understand the basic principles of cause and effect, as you seem to, I would probably have a few choice words to say about that teacher too.
Bad teachers results in bad reviews of teacher. It’s not that difficult to understand, surely?
P.S. If you cannot manage the duties of your role then you have no business being in it.

So? If a teacher shouldn't be a teacher there are appropriate channels via which to make your complaint, and bitching and making memes on an anonymous internet forum are not it.

Never ever used the internet and would not complain in that way. A bit of gate gossip is normal though.

When dc were at school it wasn’t a thing. But, you won’t stop it. As you won’t stop dc using phones to do exactly the same. Yes, people have bad manners. Yes, they should complain officially but SLT should also be aware when teachers are failing. Very few do fail, but some do.

Dc only get one chance and parents don’t like to think that chance is ruined by poor teaching. It’s exacerbated when schools won’t tackle the obvious problem teachers. But I will emphasize there are not many I would put in this category and with support most teachers are good. It should never get to the stage that parents complain. Most do it with a heavy heart too.

Never ever used the internet and would not complain in that way.

You appeared to be defending it when you replied to me.

The issue I feel is that many parents, having been to school themselves, think they know about schools, teaching and how it all works. As a parent with children in primary, I thought that too. I then changed career and now work in a primary school and have done so for a number of years. It’s an eye opener and I’d recommend any parent to volunteer in school for a period of time to see what has happened to education.

The behaviour of some children is off the scale - daily verbal abuse. The paperwork needed to be done to help children get diagnosis or extra funding to help support them is neverending. A curriculum that is fraught with issues. The emotional toll of being with young children 6.5hrs of the day, supporting them, helping them to emotionally regulate whilst taking the abuse, trying to meet the needs of all learners, teaching children who can range in learning style and at different levels in their understanding. Then there’s the parents, supporting them with mental health, family breakdowns, physical health like cancer diagnosis and bereavement. Because it all affects the child and we want to support that child (and their family) through it. And I won’t even go there with parents who are abusive and neglectful - every school has those families with children at risk. Other support services are overwhelmed and we see these children and their families daily (or not in some cases and we then worry about them), so we are pretty much the first line of support.

I’ve worked to tight deadlines in banking working overnight to hit those deadlines and working with managers and partners who would stab you in the back, but teaching has to be the hardest by far.
Teachers don’t need bashing. If teachers are incompetent or break the law, there’s a route to take that’s more effective and doesn’t bring down the ones that are competent.

You don't become unpopular by doing nothing

But a teacher who does nothing, isn't addressing issues either. They may not be unpopular, but they may not be very effective either.

Sometimes doing something unpopular is still the right thing to do.

When I was at school we got a new head who made (for us) a very unpopular decision. He decided that the school canteen was not going to serve chips every day (chips and gravy was the most popular meal) and would have more healthy options. Fizzy drink cans stopped being sold and water was pushed as the main drink option. You could get pure fruit juice if you paid quite a lot.
We weren't very happy, to say the least. And parents weren't especially happy either. They "didn't pay someone as head to make parenting decisions" I heard from more than one (not mine).

If there had been SM at the time he'd probably have been subject to a lot of abuse.

But there wasn't. So he compromised with the delegations of unhappy pupils to allow chips on Friday and I think another day he allowed something else, that wasn't chips but not quite as healthy as his idea.
And we moaned... threatened to boycott... and adjusted.

Now I look back and realise that actually he had a good point; he was ahead of his time really. The popular meals were very chips/burger/sausages, and although other more healthy options were offered, they tended to be avoided by the majority of certainly the younger ones.
I used to have chips and gravy with one of those calypso-full of artificial colour drinks 4 days a week, and on the 5th pizza with half a can of fizzy (shared with friends).
When he changed I discovered they did quite a nice salad, the soup (with bread roll) was pretty good, baked potatoes and cheese filled you up well on a cold day, the pies weren't too bad, even if they did now only come with mashed potato (which I can't stand) and the fish pie with layered potatoes on top was more than edible and I loved tinned sweetcorn (never served at home).
They'd served all of those before, but I'd ignored them in favour of the chips.

But at the time we hated him for this.

Also, there seems to be a flurry of negatives reviews just near acceptance deadline for 11+ private schools and grammar schools. If negative weeks before it would look less bias but not during the acceptance timeframe which makes me wonder if parents have kids on wait list and want to bump up and get offers?

I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if homeschooling — or at least some version of it — becomes the norm in the near future. When set up properly, it can be fantastic for both motivated students and committed teachers alike.
Online schools, in particular, seem like a much safer environment for everyone involved, especially when it comes to bullying — far less playground nastiness and a lot more control over what actually happens.
I’ve had a proper look at some of the top-rated ones recently, and honestly, they’re very impressive: well-structured, engaging, and incredibly flexible.
That said, there’s a big but — it really hinges on the student’s ability to stay disciplined, and, let’s face it, on parents having the time, energy, and willingness to stay deeply involved in the whole process.

Oh, the irony......🤣

A thread about parents slagging off teachers. And here a post being particularly vile slagging off parents.....

Teachers aren't all saints. Parents aren't all saints.

@ThisTicklishFatball dc still make friends at school though. There’s rubbing along with all sorts that’s important too. Not just selected ones who don’t mix fully. I’d hate dc staring at a computer all day. My idea of hell for any dc. It really hinges on your view of screen time, needing glasses and interaction with actual human beings, with all their failings! At times they have to be navigated.

One interesting thing is that Bridget Philippson is looking at the myriad of ways parents can complain and vast numbers are according to The Times today. Many more than years ago.

It’s fairly clear why this is happening - in my view. Heads, it says, want to encourage complaints to come via the schools but then don’t have the time or expertise to deal with them. There is a clear message that schools are dictating to parents and not engaging them as partners. They want to enforce rules parents don’t like, don’t deal with bullying and don’t respond in a timely manner. Some parents complain every week though to multiple people and organisations. It’s clearly out of hand. I wonder if strict schools are causing this?

Yes, they should complain officially but SLT should also be aware when teachers are failing. Very few do fail, but some do.

SLT should also be stronger against nightmare parents and protect their staff, but all too often don't.
I have AMAZING SLT but they've still let me and others down

Dc only get one chance and parents don’t like to think that chance is ruined by poor teaching. It’s exacerbated when schools won’t tackle the obvious problem teachers

TOTALLY agree!!!! They're FAAAAAAR more commonly let down by parents. Acrimonious splits, with warring parents not prioritising their children; neglectful parents, lazy parents.

feel free to flame me.

The problem with social media is that it is never the responsible parents who use it as their complaint forum, it’s the malicious parents who want to cause trouble, not actually go to the bother of making a formal complaint to the school that would actually enable proper investigation of the issue being complained of. It is far easier, but infinitely less constructive, to harm a school’s or a teacher’s reputation through often anonymous comments than to actually follow a complaints procedure. Too many parents indiscriminately send letters full of bile to governing bodies, the Local Authority and Ofsted all in one go, having done nothing more prior to that than shout at the class teacher, go round in person to other parents’ houses to shout at them and call their children “little shits,” insist on instant meetings with the Headteacher, and tell other parents on social media that a particular school or teacher is failing in some egregious way.