How to help a 10Y old girl with her confidence at school (boys are better, I'm no good, etc)

[ParentOfOne]

Not sure if this was more appropriate here or in the Parenting section.

Our 10 year old girl is preparing for her 11+
We have tried to strike a balance between motivating her for the test, but not making her feel anxious, because our message is that doing well at the test gives her more options in terms of schools but she'll end up in a good school regardless

She has a tutor who praises her and thinks she's ready to do well.

BUT a few toxic boys in her class have managed to get into her head: boys are smarter, boys are better, boys are faster, etc etc etc

So now every time she struggles on a question or gets a question wrong, she gets completely overwhelmed with negative feelings

I appreciate it's hugely subjective, but has any of you been through this?
Any specific tips? Suggested readings?

We have explained to her that many studies point to underconfidence being a problem with girls and overconfidence being a problem with boys (see Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01831-4 )

We keep stressing that everyone is different, that there are plenty of things mum does better than dad and viceversa, that you cannot generalise

We keep reminding her of all her achievements, that the tests are hard, that the tutor and the teachers always praise her, and that she shouldn't believe what the boys say because many will lie. We reminded her of all the instances where the very same boys invented the most ridiculous stories.

We have also shared (adapted for her age) real stories from our works of this type of over and underconfidence

But none of it seems to have much effect and it honestly breaks our hearts.

For context, she is used to a circle of friends and relatives where all the women work, she knows that in a couple of families she earns more than him, and the only women who have never worked are her grandmas. All of this to say that she's not exposed to the Iranian morality police or anything like that.

She has a couple of books like stories for rebel girls but they have never resonated with her.

Thoughts?

Are you applying to all-girls secondary schools, or mixed ones?

I would be complaining to the current school about the "toxic boys". Misogyny starts young and should not be accepted.

Strictly speaking girls do better at school. It's a fact.

Well boys are faster and stronger. But physical strength doesn't make you clever.

I think give it less oxygen. I don't want to hear what some boy is jabbering on about I am not interested in his opinion (maybe a little diversion into the difference between opinions and facts) because frankly he is wrong and if I want to listen to a man talking rubbish I can find a video of Trump.

Ask her to convince you that that’s true? If it’s true (which it isn’t) she’ll be able to explain why she thinks that and you’ll have the bonus of why exactly she thinks that. It’s not true and she’ll probably find that she can’t give a single compelling argument. I also suspect you’ll find out that it’s not all boys are better than girls but some specific boys are better than her (in her head).

We are considering mixed schools only, for a variety of reasons.

The thing with complaining is that many comments are probably not explicit enough to realistically expect an intervention by the school. When we probed, she said it wasn't like "all girls are stupid" but more subtle, like "how many did you get right? I got 95% of the test right and with time to spare"

My daughter is younger than yours (about to turn 8) but I was just looking at books about confidence for her. A lot of the reviews mentioned that their children wouldn't listen when the advice came from parents but that seeing it written down by a third party did seem to resonate.

I have bought this for my daughter, but it hasn't arrived yet so I can't speak to it personally.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Confidence-Code-Girls-Amazingly-Imperfect/dp/0062796984/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=280ZH4PH350AP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Id1SN5kQIf9a5xZ0yrQB5XbAhYjxciUmJQuK2pvdmWdtylW9OxVr0qUKxzBZYV9RiWp3z1CJFWzO4IKSBTo9WiqtR1s_F2lwIcj7Ecpt9ZUFFUKPRMi0wxb3A77CLMLGn004_TfTB5d3Oqpe2CTOPRLeNIYmtshsYPiGb9J2kuHcdrCSmryBtQriOnCwtvJvmONtJJIbuHwDiaRSLXbghQ.sEBQKbVm2mU6m1zninPcTMbv3MWMExPlgZ4pyfk1Wjw&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+confidence+code+for+girls&qid=1750195864&sprefix=the+confidence+code%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-1

I also bought another book about growing friendships which arrived today and she was so excited to read it to see if it might help. She started it by herself and then we read some together and it has really got her thinking and talking already.

Although I would 100% talk to the school as their behaviour is out of line, I think I’d take any pressure off her for the results on the tests and keep it about the effort she puts in . It’s probably easy for me to say as I’m not from the UK but the idea of putting pressure on a young child to do well in a test and suggesting that it will affect her future is putting a lot on her.

Do you think you are valuing the results over the efforts she is making?

It’s complicated - she might be saying these things as a palatable way to tell you she feels under pressure. That she might not do as well as you hope. She’s warning you that other people do get higher scores than her and she might not pass those tests?

No! We have always been shouting from the rooftop that we want her to do her best but don't care about the result, and that as long as she put her best effort we'll be happy.

We said that the test gives her more options because she asked why she needed to do it at all and it's not like we could lie to her.

We are not the kind of parents who subject their children to 2 years of intense tutoring, nothing like that

That sounds very interesting, thanks! Do you remember the title of the friendship one?

I believe from experience that all girl schools teach girls empowerment because they’re no boys around to undermine them. I was fortunate that I had a boy in a boys school and a girl in a girls school but because they’re had siblings of different sexes they mixed easily out of school.

I wouldn’t make too much of it re showing her research etc. Maybe teach her some brief come back reactions to use but also report any comments to her that may be bullying.
Have you looked at growth mindset activities? Lots of schools use this approach. Maybe see if she’d like this book.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52803797-the-girls-guide-to-growth-mindset

Tbh this sounds like normal competitiveness to me. DD definitely tells stories like this, along with kids putting their hand up after 10 mins to say they have finished a test. Lots of the kids show off about what they are good at, whether that is maths or running fast or gymnastics. Whilst it's not helpful to your DD, you aren't likely to change that.

I personally would focus less on unpicking their arguments and more on building up your DD (not saying you aren't already!). With all these things including maths, a large component is practise. If she wants to get better, she would benefit from practise. If she is not too bothered, that is ok too. If she has negative self talk, I would be helping her to reframe that e.g. 'making mistakes are an important part of learning, they show me what to practise next and give me a deeper understanding'. Along with praising the other things she is good at too.

My DD is a bit of a perfectionist and will often melt down over small mistakes. We had to 'push through' in a way. We discussed that mistakes are ok, modelled talking about our mistakes etc but really the only thing that made a difference was her continuing to feel the frustration and gradually learn to deal with the emotion without getting overwhelmed.

The boys at my DDs prep totally eroded her confidence, particularly in maths. Just like what you are experiencing- the more showy off type stuff, putting hands up first etc. Comments in her reports and parents evenings were always, “she’s very bright but needs to participate more in class”. She could never quite articulate why.

She started at an all girls school for Y7 and the transformation has been amazing. All her teachers say she participates brilliantly, has always got something relevant and thought provoking to say, has put herself forward for class leadership positions etc. She is like a totally different child.

I asked her what’s changed and her simple reply was that she didn’t feel stupid in front of the boys any more.

I would like her to go back to coed for sixth form but single sex has literally been life changing for her. It could also be what gives your daughter the confidence to succeed - there’s every chance her feelings will continue at her next school.

Have you read Dillusions of Gender? It's great, but if you don't have time, one thing I learnt from it was that merely reminding women and girls that they're female (eg by having a sex question at the start) triggers performance anxiety with knock on effects because it's so ingrained that we're not good enough. Even campaigns about girls are great at maths trigger it because the girls overrides the great. Try to remove sex from the discussion so tell her how good she is in a none gendered way, and that the individual boys are horrible bullies, not that of course boys aren't better.

I’d maybe come from the angle that just because someone says something doesn’t mean it’s true. How does she know this kid took 5 mins and got 99% right or whatever other than taking his word for it? It’s easy to say things like this as everyone else is so busy on their own paper they aren’t paying attention to anyone else. Or you could focus on the facts - you get an hour to do the paper because that’s how long the examiners think you need and no one who marks it knows whether you took some or all of the time, so it is irrelevant. I imagine you can’t leave early so there is literally no benefit in doing it faster.

Also she needs to focus on herself and not worry about anyone else - there will be a cut off for the 11+ but you don’t need to be the best scoring person in the area to pass - my dc never even found out their score.

@RatherBeOnVacation I would like her to go back to coed for sixth form but single sex has literally been life changing for her. It could also be what gives your daughter the confidence to succeed - there’s every chance her feelings will continue at her next school

I can imagine that. But there can also be other issues. We know a family who's moving their daughter from single sex to mixed for 6th form because the bitchiness, jealousy and competitiveness (not just on academics, but also on looks, popularity, etc) among girls were too much, and they're sending the younger daughter to a coed secondary for this reason. It's not the first time we hear these stories.

Our daughter has said that she wouldn't like a girls only school and remains very firm on this point.

From how we know her, we are not sure her confidence issues would necessarily improve in a single sex school: right now those who show off the most are boys, but in a single sex school there will still be other girls who brag and show off, so the issue won't necessarily go away.

Of course I get it that it's subjective and that plenty of girls have good experiences in single sex school; I am talking about our understanding of our specific case

@RatherBeOnVacation The boys at my DDs prep totally eroded her confidence, particularly in maths. Just like what you are experiencing- the more showy off type stuff, putting hands up first etc. Comments in her reports and parents evenings were always, “she’s very bright but needs to participate more in class”. She could never quite articulate why.

This is exactly the point of the Nature article I linked

@SomethingFun I agree. We have been trying to explain to her that these boys are probably exaggerating, that it's very common, etc
As for the scores: in some tests you do get a score and this adds to the anxiety and peer pressure, unfortunately

No. I assume this is a book for adults and not appropriate for a 10 year old, right?

If her score is good enough then it doesn’t matter if someone else’s is better. Is she used to being top at everything? My dc go to a school that is single sex for secondary and this is a good thing because the girls won’t be put off doing maths and physics and the boys have to fully engage with food tech and drama and art and English literature.

The mean girls stuff often starts in primary (I see it in Y3 atm) so I don’t think you can plan your dd’s schooling around avoiding interpersonal conflict with awful people I’m afraid. Maybe some understanding that some people are full of shit, have very fragile egos, put others down to make themselves feel better and are best avoided and ignored or take the piss if you feel safe enough to do so - age appropriate of course 😁

Yes, but you might find it helpful and/or interesting

My DD is older now, but I can almost remember the penny dropping at 9/10 when she realised not everything a show off said was necessarily true.

So I'd try two things, firstly gently tease the extreme showing off (was that before they climbed mount Everest or after...) and I would, separately, deal with how big her feelings are if something goes wrong. I found a good way to do this was to do something like practice tests, making sure to ram home that if they feel stuck at a question, move on and come back to it. 9/10 it's easier when they come back. The catastrophising is being escalated by the boys comments, but you can give her tools to get to the root of it.

Yes it's this one. My daughter is really enjoying it and read 4 chapters in a sitting. There are some silly doodles of a cat and dog that one reviewer was very unimpressed with but they've made my daughter giggle and she's rushed through to tell me about them which then started a conversation.

I read some myself last night and I think it would still suit a 10 year old.

www.amazon.co.uk/Growing-Friendships-Eileen-Kennedy-Moore/dp/1582705887/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=16RULI12HS2CG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2_q4DmflYgPJflJH55tPfRJZxkYwHAPvfC14vn5yS3gsh_k_50F-XlHqOz0qpmEw1_GUi486DVOcgrRbJMmU4nBqSu87duTTGZxzLUHzDJDhIJ8-bUJKf89g6WQ6m29Hn7smYl0s_4_6kYHgEoGb7bSxGrJmZkai55rv0kkBwBUqbLEs15hNmsHmwYnf72zmfSH4-tfPYQOt3xHS0Mg23g.m7TMmM0gcJY4E3g3ypFvKXR5gWgCTHnfvQxMki5asmc&dib_tag=se&keywords=growing+friendships&qid=1750243469&sprefix=growing+friend%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-1

You seem to have a scientific mindset, OP. Is there a reason why your friend's story is more important in your analysis than the mountains of evidence that single sex schools are better for girls esp in encouraging STEM and leadership and PE?

Human beings are very influenced by stories and anecdotes (as every politician knows) but if you take a step back, scientific evidence gets you closer to the truth than stories.

I would seriously reconsider girls secondary schools. Go and visit them and try and be objective. Not all are bitchy. And girls in coed can be bitchy too.

If you want another anecdote, the girls grammar school my DD is at is excellent and girls thrive. I've already seen her confidence grow massively already. She seems like a weight is off her shoulders with no boys around.

It's not a single isolated story. Where is this mountain of evidence?
Those who oppose single sex schools point out that most European countries have got rid of them precisely because the evidence suggested the pros of getting rid of them outweighed the cons.

Having said that, I am no child psychologist, so I am open to listening to other arguments.

Not interacting with the other sex is a disadvantage. I cannot think of many other environments in life where that happens.
The pros would have to be really huge to offset this con.

I can understand that girls won't be exposed to misogyny, but this doesn't mean they won't be exposed to other unhealthy competition and comparisons within girls. In fact, some believe that the bitchiness within girls can get worse in a girl-only environment.

The research I remember is inconclusive.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/26/co-ed-versus-single-sex-schools-its-about-more-than-academic-outcomes

students in single-sex schools did outperform their co-ed counterparts in reading and numeracy [...] but there appears to be no value-add in numeracy achievement and even a decline in reading achievement over time in single-sex schools compared to co-educational schools

The New South Wales department of Education published a report saying the evidence was inconclusive, too.

Also:

“There is a view that girls, if there are boys around, will only be thinking about that and they won’t be concentrating on learning integral calculus, and if boys have girls around they’ll be doing the same,” he says. “That’s an extremely patronising view of boys and girls. And anyway, if it is so important why does it suddenly cease to be important when they turn 18?”
Gill agrees. “The argument that girls need the protection of an all-girls school is wrong. I think it’s a disservice to girls and certainly a disservice to teachers in co-ed schools, because it implies that somehow they’re not up to the job of equity in education.
“It’s almost ‘lock up your daughters’.”

My impression is that Brits in general tend to be too attached to tradition, which makes it hard to challenge established policies. This is why it took so long to abolish corporal punishment. This is why we still have ludicrous uniform policies; I'm fine with dress codes, but headteachers who give detentions because pupils didn't wear their blazer in a heatwave or because their trousers are the wrong shade of grey are insane.