If State Education is for all and all are equal - how come people get 'priority' places?

[Fridayfeeling]

My DS2 has not got a place at the local nursery school because he does not meet the criteria. Most of which I can accept - children in danger at home etc. BUT.... I find it hard to accept that children are prioritised because they come from a family on income support and job seekers allowance - what does this have to do with a place at a nursery school? Is a child not a child? I thought state education provided for all equally?

Yes - everyone does have access to the college creche - first come first serve. It is a private company on the campus.

I think by saying that income support parents get priority then it is saying they are crap parents - as confirmed by the post from Really Tired.

Anyone can go to private day nurseries for their 2.5 hours, so there is no prejudice against income support people - they don't have to pay either ?

Yes, i know that V, but that wasn't what the OP was complaining about!

It is NOT saying they are crap parents! Do you think offering places to children with disabilities implies the parents are crap too?
It implies that the parents cannot afford private nurseries, and their children deserve the same opportunities as the children of better off parents.
The school nursery is not a private company, it's a state-funded resource for children, with children who need it most getting first dibs. Which I think is absolutely as it should be in a fair society. And you do have an alternative.

And poverty has been proved to be a marker for children who will do less well at school and in life generally. So to make things fairer, certain provision is aimed at helping to level that playing field. Just as disabled children will get more state help.
It strikes me as a bit mean to resent people (or the children of those people) who are poorer than you.

Can you also claim CTC to offset childcare costs or just continue whatever you do now with he advantage of using the vouchers when your lo is old enough ?

My friend got her daughter into school nursery above other people on the waiting list because her husband had cancer and her life was very difficult. My child was on the waiting list at that time, but I didn't resent her for jumping the queue. Her need was greater than mine.

My friend got her daughter into school nursery above other people on the waiting list because her husband had cancer and her life was very difficult. My child was on the waiting list at that time, but I didn't resent her for jumping the queue. Her need was greater than mine.

Fridayfeeling, families on benefits have very little money for luxuries. Its nothing to do with quality of parenting and everything to do with bank balance.

Unless someone is a benefits cheat they will not be able to afford things like music groups, a trip to the zoo or other middle class luxuries. Its bad enough affording the basics like food and school uniform.

A lot of families on benefits live in stressful situations. Its tough being a single parent or being disabled or having learning difficulites. I have used a the word "or" as not all people on benefits have learning difficulties.

A child from a rich family may well be bought more interesting toys, have access to a good computer and lots of new books. They may well be taken on interesting holidays. A child from a rich family has more opportunity for interesting hobbies.

I don't understand what you are saying about the paying for - all children at 3 get a free nursery place. So why should some be given priority because they come from a low income family ? The only reason I can think of is that they are deemed crap parents ?

They should be on a level playing field with those working / higher income - if they don't get into their first choice, they too have to go elsewhere !

Never said it was the same for those with disabilities - the other criteria I don't have a problem with. But income I do !

well if it's so marvellous, why not trying being really poor yourself.

How do you know I am not?

Are you or your dh eligible to claim working tax credit, jobseekers allowance or income support then?

They are being attracted into a particular environment - while still theoretically free to choose as much as anyone else the reality is many don't go beyond their comfort zone to seek out alternatives. They may already have children at that school, live very locally and be or will become familiar with its facilities and those who are on staff by attending now. Increasingly schools are being asked to host additional community orientated projects to expand the opportunities for less advantaged families such as ESL, basic literacy and computer skills, discover activities they can share with their kids or simply social opportunities such as Sure Start or Baby cafes. This may or may not apply yet in your school's case but may be partly lie behind the policy, to engage those whose kids come to nursery longer term in their children's education and future.

NO

I was going to be obnoxious and say that we are by no means rich, but actually that is not the point. The places are free. So why does income come into it ?

It is being used in this context as one marker "need" not ability to pay. As a matter of interest had your child been accepted would this selection criteria system still bother you ? Is it a fullday care or sessional (as per preshcool )

I think if you can afford it, you are expected to use childminding. Basically. As was stated earlier, there aren't enough nursery places to accomodate all children in an area (as you know), and people on low income/benefits CAN'T afford childminders full-time.

People on benefits aren't cr@p parent but they are in a crap situation.

It is cr@p living in poverty.

I don't think that size of your bank balance makes you a good parent, but it makes it easier to give your children a comfortable existance. (If that is how you choose to spend your money)

sorry

as one marker of "need"

It probably wouldn't have bothered me if he had been accepted, because he wouldn't have been affected by it.

As I said I realise I am being spoilt, but we all have to fight for our kids to get the best and the best for him would to be in school with his brother which he knows and has an excellent setting, and I feel he is being discriminated against because of our family situation.

When your ds starts school will he have priority because he has siblings already in the school?

If so, it's not a level playing field to those who haven't. Maybe you would feel happier if that rule was scrapped?

Fridayfeeling, if it was a completely level playing field, the school would presumably allocate spaces by drawing names out of a hat and your son's chance of getting a space would still be in doubt. If a school/nursery is oversubscribed, there has to be some criteria for selection and people who will be unhappy with it whatever!

Pulling names out of a hat I can do - that is fair. However making judgments about people because of their income is prejudice on all sides ( assumes low income need support in education - income does not indicate parenting abilities, assumes higher income parents are all excellent so don't need any help - everyone knows that is ridiculous)

The places are free, so cost does not come into it.

You sound resentful and jealous of people with much less than you, and I really think that doesn't come over well

I've never come across this kind of criteria for nursery places. It's certainly not the case where I live. Financial situation doesn't come into the equation. I'd be most annoyed if it did.

And you constantly say that this implies that all people on low incomes are bad parents. Well, that's just how you choose to interpret it. it is quite simply a fact that statistically, children from poorer homes generally do significantly less well than those from better-off backgrounds, for lots of complex reasons. Those children, in general, do have greater needs. The point of the selection criteria in this state provision is to offer the most help to those who need it most. To help level that playing field. These selection criteria will also apply to state daycare nurseries that take children under three.
A place in a state nursery school is absolutely not a universal right. How could it be? There aren't enough places.
Post-5 education is completely different.