English as a second language- swear words

[Piginapokiee]

I teach English as a second language (third in some cases). My students like to swear. Sometimes they get it wrong.

I have a class of school leavers. They will all be 16 this calendar year.

I have been thinking of doing one lesson all about how to use swear words correctly.

As a parent, would you object to this?

I think exploring some slang and swear words would help them, I remember at university having some of the students from abroad who spoke English as a second or third language would swear a lot but would never dream of doing so in their mother tongue. They often dont know what the words mean.. Relating the words, their meanings to equivalent phrases in their natural language would probably be insightful for them.

I asked my foreign language teacher to teach me swear words in my target language - they said they would for fluency only as I was at a high level (C1). I was paying for lessons myself and an adult.

If I was a parent paying for lessons for my child I wouldn't be happy.

I think it's a great idea. The word 'Fuck' is used all the time by many Italians I know who can speak English ranging from my 80 year old father in law saying it to my British mother (left her in shock!) to my 7 year old nephew who has heard it many times on the streets and on TV here in Italy, where it's becoming a normal word. I have explained to my nephew's mother that it's not ok for a 7 year old to say it, but she does't get why it's so bad and continues to say it in front of him.

For me, the non EMT speakers don't understand the weight of the word, even if there's an exact translation in their own language, sometimes it's just not as offensive, an example is the translation of 'Cunt' in Italian is 'Figa', not that offensive and is even used as a word for 'cool' and is accepted by people of all ages. The Italian 'Porco Dio' (Pig God) does not really sound offensive to us in English, it's similar to 'God Damn', not really offensive in English but pretty bad in Italian as it's blasphemous (not that I know any religious Italians I should add!)

I swear a lot, but I really don't like hearing it misused, especially from young kids. I think they understand the value of the words, then maybe they might think twice before saying it.

I think it’s a great idea. As a learner, French is my target language, I always find swearing and idiom the hardest thing to learn and use appropriately. It’s probably the most fast moving aspect of a language.

Reasons to teach it:

1. it’s part of real life, your students are going to hear these words and expressions and should know what they mean even if they don’t personally use them
2. you can teach them context and appropriate use, so they can avoid social faux pas
3. swearing in English is often very funny and creative, to me it can be one of the most versatile areas of language
4. you can teach them which words never to say!

I think it’s a good idea.

Assuming that you’re in the UK rather than US where attitudes to swearing is different, I would also mention blasphemy not being liked by some people so they might want to pick a different way to swear but you might want to consult a 16yo on how they swear “like a 16yo” so the students sound their age rather than 46yo.

"Has become"? Do you think swearing is a new phenomenon? It's as old as human language.

What kind of words do you want to teach them and what kind of words are they misusing?

Also, what kind of school is this? Are you in the UK or overseas?

So are things like having affairs and stealing stuff from work for some people - but it doesn't mean that you want to be seen to wholeheartedly endorse them by mentioning them as an expected part of everyday life - which swearing is not for many people.

teach them some Chaucer and Shakespearean swear words - at least that way they have a variety to choose from and a bit of historical anglo-saxon vocab

I think the parents who don’t mind would probably already have covered it at home. And the others would mind.

Why does it matter if they get them wrong? Maybe they'll come up with some interesting new combinations and usages, and those will spread? That's how slang works.

Can't link to it, but that video of the two Indian guys swearing at each other ("you bloody fucking bloody!") is absolutely fantastic. Maybe your students will come up with similar.

I'm a secondary school languages teacher. I definitely would not do this and don't teach swear words in the languages I teach. I don't think it's appropriate at all.

I had a lesson in Russian swear words during my degree. I've only ever used the mildest of them, but I think it's useful to know them, so you don't just pick them up by hearing others say them and end up using them inappropriately.

Yes, this is always a danger - when an English word is known to a non-native speaker, but not the context of when it would be acceptable to use.

Not even just swear words - a French speaker learning English may realise that they use 'demander' and we use 'demand' and it essentially means the same thing - except that, in French, it's just a neutral word meaning to ask; but in English, it's much stronger and potentially rude or aggressive.

In The Netherlands, they use the word 'shit' very frequently as a really mild, widely-accepted adjective or exclamation; and it can come as a shock if they come to the UK and discover that it isn't just the equivalent of 'rubbish' to us and is seen as much stronger.

I have taught my Dutch colleagues how to swear correctly in English, mostly centered around the appropriateness and level of each word. As other posters have noted, English swear words are used throughout Europe but with different levels of offence. Shit can be heard regularly on the radio as it's barely a swear word here, but this would not be acceptable in the UK, for example.

Of course it matters if they get them wrong-don’t be silly. Part of learning a language is learning how to operate in another culture without embarrassing yourself or offending anyone unintentionally.

It could be a good opportunity to explain which words have come to be offensive/racist/disablist. Words they may pick up innocently but not understand the context.

I agree with those who’ve said it’s a good idea largely because young people who are not native speakers often genuinely don’t understand the level of a swear word or the context in which it can or cannot be acceptably used. And yes, they learn loads of YouTube, or peers.
My SIL is Spanish and will use the same language with my quite proper octogenarian FIL as she will with her 20-something colleagues; she doesn’t seem to see him wince.
So perhaps, rather than a lesson teaching them the words, maybe a lesson using the words they already know and developing an understanding of gravity, context and suitability for situation?
If parents object, I would say it’s done to help avoid getting into socially awkward situations/being socially inappropriate.

It has become more normalised in more social circles. If it has always been normal in your social circle then you may not have noticed. 🙂

Absolutely agree with this.

I lived in Italy for 10 years and found it fascinating how different weights were attached to different phrases in English and Italy.

I was horrified when someone called me a 'bella figa' until my friends explained it was a compliment (if somewhat crass) and not an insult.

In the same way I didn't understand why 'Porco Dio' was about the worse thing you could ever say.

There was also an embarrassing incident where I told my very straight laced boss 'ieri sera un leone, stamattina un coglione' thinking 'coglione' was a rabbit.

And Italians had all kinds of weird wrong phrases... you might say 'complimenti' in Italian, but you don't say 'very compliments' in English.

My office used to have lots of fun comparing idioms - soaked to the skin = soaked to the bone for example.

I think you could teach a really fun session while minimising focus on 'fuck'.

Everyone uses it in Germany when shit would probably be more appropriate

Watching the first episode yesterday ot the latest German series that Walter Presents threw my way, I found it mildly interesting that the full epithet 'Fuck you!' was what the character actually hurled at her mother. Although to be fair, 'F dich' (? 'dir') would have sounded more odd (not sure which case it would take as although I do swear, it's not something I've ever felt the need to say to any of my German speaking friends...).

As a parent, I'm would agree with @ArghhWhatNext 's view.

I mean, presumably they can already ask the way to the swimming pool and list the content of their pencil case? 🤣

It depends how it's done. I think it worth covering, because they will hear swearing. I've learnt various languages, and we usually do cover words you might hear/shouldn't use - and it can be interesting learning where insults are often coming from, be it religion, animals, illness or sexual.

Many people think fuck is quite mild because they hear it all the time on TV/in films, but don't realise you can't use it in most workplaces, especially not when presenting. We had a German trainer came in who used fuck quite casually and I think someone had a quiet word about time and place, and this wasn't it. But he hadn't realised it wasn't so acceptable.

I had a Dutch colleague who used the n-word to describe someone, and I'm not sure he ever fully understood how taboo the word is now - the feedback I got was thst it's cultural differences. Well, maybe, but that's why I made the suggestion that there's some training available to go over terms not use in the workplace, sort of cultural awareness or something for speakers of other languages using the global company's main language. We had to do a load of training on different management and communication styles for people in other countries, (how hierarchical they traditionally are and so on,) it's aligned to that, but I don't think they ever added something about it.

Even in different English speaking countries, words have different meanings and implications.

I wouldn’t like this. I feel this should be done at home.

Also, way too risky for you. Lots of scope to get dragged into difficult territory (ethnic and religious references, which ones are acceptable or not and why? If cunt is unacceptable, what about twat or dick? If I can call you an idiot, why not a retard?) And you can hardly tell them it’s inappropriate to ask when you’ve set up a lesson to teach them this.

Even if you stick to what you think are mild words, plenty of people have particular issues with words others find fine.