Why not make grammar entry fairer?

[belladonna22]

My kids are still young so I have no direct experience with entry exams for grammar schools, but why is it that the exams seem to cover topics that children haven’t yet covered in most state schools?

If their (stated) purpose is to enable the best and brightest to attend, why do they make it more or less essential to obtain private tutoring, thus tilting the scales in favour of better resourced and informed families? If Labour were serious about improving access to education, wouldn’t one policy be for grammars to limit exams to topics most children will be familiar with at that point in their schooling?

@EllasNonny Why is it not fair? She’s got the GCSE grades so it’s hardly a crap school is it? Universities like state school pupils. If anything she’s got an advantage.

If she got grade 8s though surely her non- grammar school did a good job.

Why is it not fair?

Absolutely agree that a better way to improve schools for the majority of children is to remove the bottom 20% rather than creaming off the top 20%. This would allow all those who wish to learn, whether they are academically able or not, to do so without (or with much reduced) disruption and they could move between sets as their abilities and strengths develop. Ultimately, the reason most parents who apply want grammar schools for their kids is to avoid the poor behaviour and disruption many of them have experienced at primary school but magnified because the badly behaved kids are bigger and stronger. They also want to secure a peer group that values education and achievement rather than glorifying worklessness and crime. This can be seen in the rush to buy houses in the tiny catchments of the highest achieving comprehensives in non-selective areas. If undisrupted learning and the desired peer group were available at comprehensive schools, the demand for grammars would massively reduce.

@metellaestinatrio Where I am, you opt out if you don’t want to take the tests. I don’t think people are just trying to avoid dc they don’t like. Most think dc are bright enough to go to the grammar. Frequently they are wrong but they think tutoring works wonders. It doesn’t. Tutors are not always honest either in terms of lowering expectations.

I do actually have sympathy with the poorest parents but our grammars reserve places for fsm dc. They need lower pass mark. However some poor parents are very bright and spend all their time coaching! I don’t think many dc should be in a grammar that are not . There’s been borderline dc for generations but the biggest issue is exam technique and timing. This is where dc need help. Schools could have more timed tests in my view.

Yeah the football analogy doesn’t quite work. For an academy You have to be selected but can’t apply. You have to be scouted and then have an 8 week trial and based on you and not comparison to others you are selected. You can be ‘good enough’ but never make it. Academies operate independently and football is a hobby until a pro contract while school isn’t.

Being the weakest academically at a grammar school is not a good place to be in my opinion. I think borderline students would benefit from being one of the strongest in the non-grammar school, so long as the behaviour in that school is good. Hence, do not tutor for the test and what will be will be.

https://altrincham.todaynews.co.uk/schools/2025/06/04/trafford-grammar-schools-unite-to-break-down-barriers-for-disadvantaged-pupils/?fbclid=PAQ0xDSwKuMtBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABp_m5Ccy3qsyPkSXRloK_BlRSabxb8EeQTUPCXmxutsg7LZQhaV9ecdjJo1m1_aem_h5BAzr2QQLDV9tTLbxsfpg Some schools are trying to broaden access