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Pgce woes

115 replies

destiel00 · 14/03/2025 16:39

My nephew is doing a pgce. He's really struggling atm and I'm worried. One of his cohort quit last week! He is working all the hours he can - help literally works and sleeps. He's just finding it so hard to get all the work expected from both school and university done. He looks ill and I'm very concerned. My sister has asked me what she can do but other than talk to his mentor and course leader I don't know what to suggest? Help!

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Crispynoodle · 18/03/2025 23:06

Chat Gpt and other ais are his friend

destiel00 · 19/03/2025 12:46

Crispynoodle · 18/03/2025 23:06

Chat Gpt and other ais are his friend

I've said this to him but he says they've been told not to use it.
Which is odd, as the DfE are encouraging teachers to use it 🤷‍♀️

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MrsHamlet · 19/03/2025 12:48

destiel00 · 19/03/2025 12:46

I've said this to him but he says they've been told not to use it.
Which is odd, as the DfE are encouraging teachers to use it 🤷‍♀️

He's a trainee. He needs to learn how to plan a lesson from start to finish, otherwise he will never be able to understand the process and how to adapt in the moment

destiel00 · 19/03/2025 13:33

MrsHamlet · 19/03/2025 12:48

He's a trainee. He needs to learn how to plan a lesson from start to finish, otherwise he will never be able to understand the process and how to adapt in the moment

That was my assumption

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destiel00 · 25/03/2025 13:00

Update:
Things seem to have gotten worse.
Sister phoned me last night, dn throwing up from tiredness and stress. Worked 14.5 hours yesterday til he started throwing up.
He's not gone in today.
He's requested a meeting with his CL.
The mentor is useless and not helping him at all so I've told him to tell the CL that.
I've told him to ask frankly if his CL thinks he can pass.
No word from uni re: support.
I've told him to ask for options if he drops out.
He's getting no support at all from his mentor.
Any other course with such a high drop our rate and retention crisis would be deemed not fit for purpose.
It seems to me that pgce students are totally at the mercy of uninterested mentors and universities who don't care once they've got your fees.
Feeling very, very sad for him today, and for the teaching profession as a whole.
If any of you have any advice re: options/next steps, I'm all ears!
Thank you.

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jennylamb1 · 25/03/2025 13:11

It would be good to have a meeting with his CL, however if he is ill, he is ill and should be signed off. It would be worth exploring what options there are other than leaving the course, it may be that he has done enough by now to be signed off, or perhaps he can suspend and finish off in the autumn term. It sounds like a decision point has been reached.

destiel00 · 25/03/2025 14:44

Thank you.
I think he'll do a VIS, which is probably best.
Thank you all for your advice x

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jennylamb1 · 25/03/2025 14:55

What is a VIS.

MrsHamlet · 25/03/2025 15:41

He needs to be on some kind of monitored action plan to help him.

what subject?

petproject · 26/03/2025 05:33

PGCE and ECT years are tough with steep learning curves. He sounds like he cares and that he’s doing well. With stem subjects, there are a huge amount of available online resources and also chat gpt to come up with lesson ideas if he needs it. There is no need to reinvent the wheel with resources, sow, etc - he could spend an endless amount of time planning but should try to place limits on this. He can save time in a week if he uses one type of lesson activity eg a quiz with students answering on whiteboards, then uses this across all his lessons adapting as required. I would advise he protects certain times eg never works on Friday nights/Saturdays. At this late stage in the course, I would encourage him to stay where he is and finish, hopefully he can then progress to another school where he is well-supported.

Sandylittleknees · 26/03/2025 05:54

No teacher has to plan every lesson from scratch. For the pgce he has to show that he can plan lessons and teach them.
The reality once in the job (I’m 20 years in) is that some lessons still take ages to prepare (eg new alevel course I reckon 2 hrs planning for 1 hour lesson) but other lessons you can plan in 5 mins, some are shared - eg using a pre-prepared by the department booklet + PowerPoints, many you will reuse, TES and other places are useful to. Chatgpt is useful - it can write a quiz in seconds! Just check it carefully. I now often use it as a starting point and then adapt, saves the initial thinking time. It’s just complicated google really.
Teaching is hard but in the right school you can enjoy it! I love my school, but it’s a small independent with few behavioural problems and a high proportion of students who have specific learning needs. We are very fortunate to be able to focus on the individual and know that we are making a difference. Sadly under attack for being too good!

destiel00 · 11/04/2025 20:14

Hi.
Just thought I'd update as you were all so kind as to respond.
Dn is still on the course.
My sister is still not convinced it's the right decision, but is trying to be supportive.
It's so sad though, all enjoyment and enthusiasm for the subject/teaching seems gone :(
I'm hoping to see him over Easter and will try and cheer him up.
I think it's a case of just getting to the end of the course now.
He probably won't go into teaching which is a huge shame...he's great with the kids.
Thank you for all the advice. It's been much appreciated.

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MargaretThursday · 12/04/2025 20:42

I dropped out of a PGCE when I did it because of the work.

In all honesty it wasn't a good time for me because I'd had glandular fever the previous year badly and was still struggling with my health, so I probably should have taken a year off.

For some reason our subject they treated us totally differently from the other subject PGCEs (secondary maths). Things like all half term/bank holidays etc we were expected to come into the uni. Occasional weekend days were added and evenings. Even when everyone was in college we had no breaks at the same time as other subjects which was fairly miserable in a lot of ways and our breaks were shorter and we did about 90 minutes longer at the end of the day.

Once we were in school full time, we had essays and projects to do on top of this and then half term we were in the uni 9am-5pm each day, when the other subjects were told to use the week doing lesson plans and the assignments set for the week.
We were given dire warnings about missing a day meant they would mark us down for "not being professional".

My school had no text books, just filing cabinets in goodness knows what order, neither of us students could work it out, and the teachers tended to be very vague. You'd ask for "multiplying out formula" and they'd say "look under algebra" where there would be about 1500 different worksheets and working through those took time!
So we were normally not just preparing the lesson plan, but also designing worksheets on top a lot of the time. We shared when we could but had very different groups.

The point came when I woke up with serious stomach cramps (having been told that was a symptom after GF to watch out for) during the half term and staggered into college. I phoned the doctor (from pay phone) and begged for an appointment in the evening. They said they couldn't do that, but if I phoned at 10:55, which was 5 minutes before our morning break, they'd get the doctor to talk to me.
The subject leader, when I requested to go 5 minutes early - bearing in mind I was clearly quite ill at that point, refused to let me go as "a teacher can't decide to go 5 minutes before the break".

Then the leader announced to the class with no trace of irony that they had a doctors appointment they couldn't get out of, so we had a 2 hour lunch.
So I got down to the doctors in that 2 hours, and the doctor told me that I needed to stop. He also said I was the third student from my subject specialism that was dropping out that year - the other two entirely due to stress, and there had been 5 the previous year, all due to stress.
So I stopped, and the relief I felt was amazing.

I suspect I could have been a reasonable teacher. I've get good rapport with that age, I know my subject and I can explain reasonably well. And I could have coped with the hours the other subjects had - just not the relentless never stopping one we had. Never wanted to go back. If the aim of the course was to put people off teaching then it was excellent.

destiel00 · 19/04/2025 16:18

I'm so sorry you had that experience.
Sounds similar to dn tbh...his group is also expected to go into university in half terms. Very odd.
He's just so miserable, it's awful to see. He's usually such a positive person.
He has several friends all over the UK doing pgces and they are all feeling the same.
If I had to guess, I'd say 1/3 of them won't go into teaching.
🤷‍♀️

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destiel00 · 23/04/2025 12:56

Well, the Easter holidays have come and gone.
Dn is back at his placement and has 7 more weeks to go (I think..)
My sister says he's very down. I didn't get to see him in the end due to illness but I've spoken to him by phone.
But he's up to date with his planning and uni work afaik.
Thank you all for the advice and tips - I did pass them on.
He's told my sister he isn't bothered about going to his graduation 😔 but hopefully that's just the tiredness speaking.
I've told my sister its his decision and I'm some students don't bother.
And to all those of you who teach Y11s, good luck for the gcses!

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