Arts Ed or Brit Sixth Form for Dance?

[Lucydocs]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with Arts Ed or Brit School sixth forms for dance and could tell me what the main difference is/ is Arts Ed worth the cost?! (I don't want to get into the politics of Private vs Public debate here please). DD has been offered a place at Arts Ed on the dance strand and is over the moon about it but we're not eligible for the scholarship. Her passion is Contemporary and Ballet. She is auditioning for Brit in a week. I know this is a bit pre-emptive but if she were to be offered a place there I was wondering what it is like and what the advantages/difference are between the two? Really appreciate any thoughts or experiences! Thank you.

My DD is a professional dancer.

Is she auditioning elsewhere, or has she had other offers? Do you mean Arts Ed Tring, or Chiswick? I’d say Tring would be better than Brit - though to be fair, I only know people who did drama at Brit. I know nothing about the dance course there.

Hi, many thanks for your response. It's Arts Ed Chiswick - BTEC Dance in the Sixth Form. I was wondering what kind of opportunities she might get there vs Brit school.

She has auditioned elsewhere but for BA programs that take 16 year olds- Rambert (her dream and wants to try again in a couple of years), Italia Conti (got offered a place but didn't like the feel of the school), Tring Park (didn't get a place but also didn't like it very much), tried ENB but didn't get an audition.

She has only ever gone to our local dance school at the weekend for classes up until recently when she got into the ENB-Youth connect group. So this will be her first vocational course. But she's completely dance obsessed! Thanks!

I've never heard of BRIT being one for those heavily interested in Ballet - that's more Elmhurst or Tring. BRIT is better known for music and MT.

For dance in general... Tring and Laines (they have a diploma that starts at 16), think Performers as well. Also Hammond.

Think @comefromaway is possibly the expert you need here.

Brit is more commercial than classical dance.

@Lucydocs Which genre of dance is she most interested in, and what sort of career is she aiming for?

My DD is a dancer - well she's a teacher now so it's quite a long time since I was in your position OP and may be a bit out of the loop, but to be honest I would say neither of those schools are particularly well known for dance.
To be brutally honest, she has probably missed the boat if she is hoping for a career in classical ballet. You really need to be in full time training at one of the well known classically focused schools by 16 at the very latest if that's your aim, and even then, only a tiny percentage will go on to have successful classical careers. There are of course a few very successful ballet dancers who came to it late or didn't follow the conventional path but they are people with outstanding talent and are few and far between. I don't mean to be cruel, but I've seen so many young people go through this process and have their hopes dashed that I would urge caution - and realism. However, a sound ballet technique is the foundation of most other types of dance so it is still very much worth developing that if she wants to focus more on contemporary or more commercial genres of dance.
Whether it is worth going into full time training at 16 for any kind of dance other than classical ballet is debatable, and depends very much on what the quality of training available to you at home is. If you have a good teacher at home and can access things like good quality associate schemes and Summer schools then I think there's quite a lot to be said for staying at school and doing A levels and applying again at 18. Lots of schools that are more MT, commercial or Contemporary focused actually prefer more mature dancers and the extra 2 years can make a big difference, plus having some A levels leaves more doors open for the future. Everyone heading down the performing arts route needs to have a Plan B, and probably C,D, E and beyond as it is such a precarious route. Even the most talented can have their careers end overnight due to injury etc so having more strings to your bow is never a bad thing. Of course not everyone can access sufficiently good training at home and not everyone is cut out for A levels in which case BTECs or similar may be the better path, but I would say don't jump at the first opportunity just because it's dance. Your DD obviously has talent or she wouldn't have got the offers she has had so far but there may be other, more cost effective ways for her to develop before reapplying for one of the degree or level 6 diploma courses at 18. Sorry, that doesn't really answer your question I know, but just don't feel that she must be training full time at 16 or feel pressured into accepting a course that doesn't seem right.

Hi, thanks a lot for this.

@taxi4ballet she loves ballet and contemporary, less so commercial/street dance. She says she wants to be a professional dancer - her dream ambition ideally would to be part of a contemporary company. However, I'm trying to persuade to keep her options open which is why I thought Arts Ed could be good as they have to do at least 1 A-level alongside their training and they have links to Musical Theatre ensembles I think.... but not sure how different this would be to Brit. I have no experience/knowledge of dance schools tbh so it's all been a very steep learning curve!

@MrsAvocet thanks so much for sharing your honest opinion. DD and I know she is very unlikely to ever have a career as a ballerina given her training so far but she does enjoy it and has for years begged us for her to go to a ballet school, but it wasn't a feasible option for us then. But she loves contemorpary too and does tap, jazz, modern etc too.

She basically spends every spare minute she has doing a dance class of one sort or another!

I too am a bit out of the loop now. My DD didn’t go to vocational school but was in training many hours a week by age 16, so it is possible. She’s now a ballet dancer with a national company. However, from what you’ve said, I would be wary about both Brit and Chiswick. I wouldn’t want to pay full fees without some sort of scholarship. Did she not apply for Northern? What about Urdang? I think they take from age 18 upwards.

Does her current dance school get children into the big dance schools on a regular basis? DD’s dance school sees those that want to get into the big dance schools head off at 18 on a regular basis - Bird, Laine, Urdang etc. plus the odd one that disappears off to ballet training earlier. It comes back to what does she have on offer now and how that would compare to somewhere like Arts Ed and remembering that all dancers need a plan B, C or D. I think there is sometimes an automatic assumption that vocational full time training must be better and at 16, you have more options and also to see what training you want.
Look at the graduates from Arts Ed at 18, where do they go? And compare it to current leavers from her dance school? Then factor in cost and keeping options open. If her local dance school isn’t getting the older ones into the big dance schools at 18, then are there other local options that do?

@Lucydocs Neither of those schools are known for ballet training, I'm afraid. What grade/level of ballet is she currently working at, and how many hours a week does she do? You do need to have strong ballet technique to be able to cope with the rigours of contemporary dance.

If her real aim is a career in contemporary, then I would strongly recommend she stays on at school to do A-levels and continues at her existing dance school. She will probably also need to attend a lot of workshops, short courses and dance summer schools as well. If they still have spaces available, I would recommend that she goes to the Easter residential dance course at Tring Park School in April this year.

Hi, that's amazing. No, she hasn't applied to Northern as didn't want to leave home yet but I have heard many great things about it. Urdang is from 18. Thanks!

DDs experience was that ballet is a disadvantage at Brits

@Ionacat Thanks so much for the advice! No, it's just a small local community dance school. Some of them have gone to Brit but to do Music and Musical Theatre. I'm amazed she's got as good as she has tbh. She does go to several classes a week there now and also is in the ENB youth program every Friday. She's applied to do the summer school at Rambert, yesterday. Arts Ed, I think a lot go into West End shows and other dance schools - but so do Brit students from what I can tell which is why I'm not sure what the extra fees would be paying for. Thanks!

@taxi4ballet thanks. She is intermediate in Ballet at present. She struggles academically so she really doesn't want to do A-levels but we've been trying to persuade her. I think at Brit and Arts Ed they have to do 1. My thought was if she was in a sixth form that had a dance focus she could also do top-up classes (but if she went to Arts Ed it will abosulutley max out our loans so not much room for additional things)

@Baital thanks. I'm not 100% sure what you mean in terms of a disadvantage? As in, it's not taught or valued....? Does your DD go there?

My top tip is to ask to see the weekly timetable for a student doing 1 A level at both schools. This will tell you how many of each class ( ballet, jazz etc) you get a week and what you get for your money.

Does your dd have a list of contemporary companies she would like to work for in future? If so, she needs to do her homework. Look on the companies' websites and the dancers' bios, and find out where they trained.

My daughter went to Hammond. She had originally wanted to audition for Arts Ed but she wasn’t eligible for any scholarships and when we looked further I don’t think the dance training would have been up to what she’d been used to plus she got a Dada at Hamondcwhich meant the fees were less than £3,000 per YEAR.

i don’t think Brit is particularly renowned for dance, especially ballet.

The options with A levels are limited. It’s pretty much one of the big four, Artd Ed or somewhere like Moorland in Clitheroe which is also private.

to be honest, knowing what we now now If you have access to good local training & a sympathetic academic school I’d stay home until after A levels.

If she struggles academically would a Level 3 Btec not be a better option. That gives you a lot more choice.

I agree with @Comefromaway

Thanks so much everyone. Really good advice and suggestions, much appreciated! I'll look at the timetable/ballet hours/company dancers bio's. Re BTEC yes, that's what Arts Ed offered her and Brit is a UAL diploma.

From what I can gather it sounds from this that Brit is not really known for it's dance training, esp if interested in ballet/contemporary...Arts Ed could be better but overall prob not worth getting into debt for... so to maybe stay local and focus on training outside of school hours until 18.

Thanks!!!

Can I be brutally honest?

At 16, if she hasn't already been picked up for boarding ballet training that ship really has sailed, I know it sounds crazy but ballet is something that is scouted young in all but the occasional exceptional dancer.

I know less about contemporary so I really don't know if she's missed that boat but I do strongly advise she sticks with academics for now for her plan b in life. Unfortunately I know multiple now mid 20's to 30's year olds with huge debts starting again to fine "normal" jobs because their performance dream failed, they were talented, hugely in our community but they were not exceptional, they weren't in the top 60 or whatever in any age cohort that will make it for a living. I don't know you obviously but as a parent ensuring she has a fall back in normal qualifications and to be there when the likelihood that reality hits is important.

My own dd has had so little professional work so continues to wait tables (not dance but similar situation, i did try to tell her!

@mitogoshigg is right in that the classical boat has sailed, but it's not too late for contemporary. The big contemporary training establishments usually take at 18+ for degree courses.

The conversations with the head of dance were very negative when DD mentioned ballet. My impression was that ballet training was looked down on. No, DD didn't go there. She has an EHCP and my impression was that she wasn't welcome, they don't have to accommodate EHCPs so their 'accommodations' in the application process is tokenistic.

I'm really sorry to hear that. My son has an EHCP and it was my hope more creative establishments would be more sympathetic towards him (he's only 11 at the moment but big on music). Did she go onto train elsewhere?