American Curriculum vs GCSEs

[TeensMom]

I recently posted about sidestepping GCSEs for a highly anxious, but high achieving, DD.

Apparently Latymer Upper School are now doing this, but only from 2027.

www.latymer-upper.org/middle-school-curriculum-reform-2027/

We’re thinking about switching to an American curriculum school in SW London or Surrey. Can anyone with recent experience comment on the depth and breadth of the American curriculum compared with GCSEs?

The main reason to switch would be to continue studying a broader range of subjects for longer, eg History, Geography and RS, Music, Drama and Art, rather than just one from each group.

However, if the American curriculum is a year behind the UK KS4 curriculum and “shallower”, DD will just be going over work she’s already covered, so she won’t benefit from the switch.

I am not familiar with Latymer’s curriculum but as an American I can tell you there is no such thing as ‘the American curriculum’ - individual states and even individual schools are given wide latitude in what is taught and when, so there would not be single curriculum available for Latimer to adopt.

What is described looks like an American model, not an American curriculum - most US schools will mandate core subjects like English, Science and Maths at a level appropriate to their ability, but then allow students to select from an evolving list of special interest courses that are shorter in duration. In the US individual subjects are frequently streamed so those able in Maths or English or Science can move at a faster pace or go further in depth. I graduated my US high school about 2-3 years beyond the ‘norm’ for math and had an extra year of advanced Chemistry, for example. I also did one off years in special interest topics like Civics, American History and Art.

Thanks for clarifying this!

I'm an American and I agree with Labra. There is a general American way of doing secondary education, but there are as many variations on that model as you can imagine, and there definitely isn't one single curriculum.

You need to look in detail at what her program would be at the individual schools you're considering. It could be wonderful, or it could be a locked-in sequence of American history & literature classes that might not be better than the GCSE curriculum you're looking to avoid.

Part of my job is helping families from all over the world but largely Americans with UK schooling.
Most of them have to drop back a year unless working at a very high level which suggests to me that your DD would be well ahead and possibly bored

Based on what? It is an English school teaching (mostly) English children, so presumably will base curriculum on what they have learned already. A big advantage to the American approach is its flexibility

Americans start education 1-2 years behind the UK (which is ridiculously early imo) so not entirely surprising that they would be a year behind on average. Comparing my American state education to my husband (private secondary and then oxbridge) he has the advantage of content in his chosen subjects - definitely learned more stuff in this 3 subjects and knows it all by rote. I come well ahead in unstructured problem solving, creative thinking, general applied knowledge outside chosen subjects and knows, as well as an ability to think laterally and thematically. I guess it depends on what you think is more useful for children today.

Expat who have lived in many countries here. I have the same experience with Canadian and American families. The curriculum is flexible, yes, but it also translates as a lower baseline level. They study a boarder range of subjects. Many American families have to find schools that are less academic if they don't allow kids to do an easier maths class, say if kid is at KS1 level but kid age is KS2, the American school would give flexibility for the kid to do KS1 level maths at KS2 age. This is not possible under the British system.

It depends on your preference. If your kid is academic and wish to pursue a career that require a specialist degree like Computer Science, Maths, Physics, LLB, Medicine and Dentistry, the British system prepare them better in their uni application. There is no chance the kid can get into a British or European university for a specialist degree if they do not excel in that subjects and study them in depth in school.

Would agree with the above, I went to a US university and whilst the US students at both undergraduate and graduate level were very bright and worked hard, it was much less demanding (and they were much less ready) that a UK course. Have you looked at the baccalaureate? I understand that is wider but also still retains depth ?

@TeensMom Does it mean Latymer want all the marks to be set by the teachers rather than an external examiner? I would be very wary of this change. It is difficult to measure their performance objectively and transfer them to another school if the curriculum is not suitable for your DC.

@TempleHill and @glasslightly i think you are missing the point that it is not an American school, nor an American curriculum- Latymer are using what is being referred to informally as ‘American style’ middle years curriculum, which basically just means more flexibility, broader curriculum, less exam pressure and grading/evaluation as you go. Latymer is one of the top ranked schools in the UK, so they will certainly be ensuring their students are competitive for entry into UK (and US/EU) schools

They still do English and maths GCSEs.

as for transferring to another school mid way, that would be a problem anywhere- it is a hot topic in the VAT discussion where parents forced to consider moving in gcse years are now contending with different exams, different course offerings, different approaches to progressing the curriculum. In general I think this is a problem with the uk educational system - far too rigid.

I have a very anxious daughter - she has diagnosed OCD, ADHD and waiting autism assessment. She also has POTS where a main system is anxiety caused by physical changes to the body (constant release of noradrenalin) and she is on flight or fight 24/7 unfortunately.
My first thought is are you talking about all this school / gcses / American things around her? I am concerned that you are feeding her anxiety - thoughts the UK GCSEs are going to make her anxiety worse. Study stress is very much influenced by both the messages a child gets at school from teachers/peers as well as parent stress. If you tell her just do her best and her best will be good enough that will go along way. You need to work out what she wants her next steps to be - if she did her GCSEs and focused on maths, english, sciences for the good grades that she is really sorted for her next steps. We actually moved our son down to GCSE foundation spanish (highest grade you can get would be a 5) and combined sciences to take the pressure off him - he ended up getting all 9s and 8s in his other GCSEs. With my daughter she also moved to combined science and then dropped a GCSE (most A level programmers would accept a min of 7 or 8 GCSEs - some would accept only 5) - so she went into her exams with 8 GCSE while the other children were doing 10. She still got into our local grammar school for 6th form.
personally - I would put your daughter in a local school so she has less travel and more time for rest/homework and spend the money on tutors to boost her confidence and manage her anxiety that way.

OP let your child do GCSEs. She’s in for a lot of explanation when she applies for jobs and might even have to take equivalence exams at some point, or prove that she can meet a certain standard.

As mentioned by a pp, you are feeding her anxiety and making this into a much bigger deal than it needs to be. It would be a different matter if the view was she wasn’t capable of achieving academically but this doesn’t seem to be the case.

Op what about IB, the international baccaleureate? My daughter did this instead of a levels and it was a way to take a broader range of subjects. I wanted this as am from Canada and had the American experience that you refer to.

Lots of schools do IB, although most are private.

Unfortunately there are only a small handful of schools that offer the IB middle years curriculum in the UK, but yes that is an alternative.

as an outsider looking in the gcse system is awful - not just from a mental health perspective (which I think some of you are underplaying), but from the way it warps education to revolve around exams leading to a stultifying curriculum with rigid definitions of success,meaning kids leave school with a bit of a tick box mentality and little love for learning. Latymer isn’t an option for us unfortunately, but it is encouraging to see a leading school doing something different.

Not specifically the American system but I do very wish we had chosen a system where performance was measured over a range of assessments. Not just finals aka gcse and a-levels.

Exams at the end of 2 years is so unreflective of real life and my dc struggle terribly with anxiety surrounding them. But they excel at regular small tests, projects, presentations, coursework etc which of course is much more reflective of the skills required in real jobs.

There are no jobs where the key measure is demonstrated by sitting exams at the end of an extended period.

Lots of useful comments, thank you!

The school we’re considering offers both IB and the American AP school leaver qualifications. IB would suit DD very well and is accepted by Oxbridge and medical/dental/vet schools, as well as the American universities.

English and Maths are compulsory in IB, so it’s accepted as equivalent to having English and Maths GCSEs.

So the only question is do we keep her in a British school and watch her self-combust as she competes with the her ambitious and fiercely competitive close friends over GCSE grades (one quarter of pupils get all 8s-9s currently, many all 9s, and rumour has it it’s likely to be higher in her year) then switch her to an IB school for Year 12 or do we jump ship for Year 9 to a broader and more work-ready curriculum and perhaps a more collegiate and less competitive group of friends.

I haven’t looked in to Latymer’s plans in detail, as they’re only introducing their new curriculum in 2027, too late for us unfortunately!

Agree completely. I know that anytime the US is referenced there is a massive pile on because everyone loves to hate America, but how many are really happy with secondary education in the UK or feel it is preparing our children for future employment?

as an observation, the uk is obsessed with exams - everyone has to be ranked and measured, even in creative pursuits like music and dance! It is such a poor, incomplete measure of someone’s competence let alone potential for further development.

100% go where she will be happiest - happy children are most likely to achieve their potential. Whether that means sticking with friends and helping her reframe gcse expectations in a healthy way, or leaving what might be a slightly toxic environment that better suits her personality. Some kids thrive on competition, but for others it is counterproductive.

What does DD want?

Could some form of counselling help with the anxiety?

I agree with send her where she will be happy.

OP, if your daughter is considering a career in medicine, you really need to get on top of her anxiety now. I was a big fish in a small pond at school (straight A* across the board with no revision), and it was a shock to go from that to distinctly middling at med school. Even now with a phd, multiple masters, publications, national leadership positions etc, I feel academically mediocre compared to my direct colleagues with their multiple million-pound research grants etc.

There are some very, very clever people in medicine. She will never be the cleverest in her cohort. If she will “combust” from competitiveness at GCSE, she will not cope with med school exams, post grad exams, training programme assessments, higher degrees, and all the rest of it.

I have a pastoral role and every year I see perfectionist girls (and it is always girls) who can’t cope with the pressure. Many of them end up psychiatrically unwell and needing to take time out of medicine. I’m not sure how many return. Please seek help for your daughter at this stage, to prevent her from getting to that stage. What you say about her sounds extremely worrying, and not likely to be fixed by swapping schools.

Hi OP. I'm Brotish and my children are in an international IB school. They are following the IB curriculum and when they move up to High School they can start to do AP's alongside the High School Diploma. They will then start the formal IB diploma. It's a really flexible curriculum an they're learning loads more and excelling far more academically then they were in the local state school.

Also they put a lot of emphasis on sports and varsity teams and drama using ITSA.

The maths and Englihs GCSE can be taken privately if needed. But most of the kids graduate from the school they're at with great results in the IB. We're in Surrey/SW Londom area. I don't know where Latymer is. Happy to privately DM if you want.

I wouldn't discount it.

Hi,

It's so funny that a lot of people are posting about this. I live locally to ACS Cobham- this is an IB school, and have friends who have kids there. As far as I can see they're doing well not doing the GCSE curriculum, the kids seem to graduate school with ex cellent grades and go all over for university.

I used to really think GCSE/A -Levels were the way to go, but actually, a more flexible curriculum seems a good.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I find that, when Europeans are discussing the US educational system, they often forget that the (great) inequalities extend both directions, up and down.

The study publicized in this this news article demonstrates the range of possibilities in the US system. The chart below displays data for "achievement" vs "neighborhood wealth" in state funded school districts in the US at 6th Grade, chronologically equivalent to Year 7 in the UK. Very roughly speaking, children living in the top socioeconomic decile of neighborhoods are in schools working two or more years ahead of the nationwide average and those living in the top couple of percentiles are working three or more years ahead. The study doesn't cover older years, but I would assume that the dispersion gets even greater throughout secondary school.

While I would agree that the median child in the US is working below the median child in the UK, and that the bottom quartile in the US is working much below that in the UK, I disagree that the top quartile in the US is working below that in the UK and believe that the top decile and above in the US is working above their counterparts in the UK.

The lack of standardized curricula and syllabi in the US means that poor (in multiple senses of the word) schools can be very bad, indeed, but it also means that those with ability and a lot of parental support find it easier to achieve in both breadth and depth.

Sorry, forgot how to add an image.

Just curious - why do SAT and SAT II (when they existed) seem so easy to British pupils? My DC did SATs with no prep, no adjustments for his disability (ASD and severe dyspraxia affecting writing and time management in exams really badly) and had a head injury 15 minutes before one of the exams (turned out to be mild concussion). Achieved 760-780/800 in subject tests across the board (STEM as well as MFL and Lit) as far as I remember and said the exams were unbelievably easy. I was puzzled.