Page 2 | Transition from independent to state

Starsugar · 2024-12-14T09:41:18+00:00

Due to increases in school fees we are having to move my daughter from her prep school into state, she is in year 5 and we have given notice for her to leave after Easter. The class sizes are small and she has had access to lots of space, opportunities and great facilities. Our local primary schools that have places in her year group are not great. When it comes to high schools our two nearest are in need of improvement and the third does not do well academically. We aren't really in a position to move and although I am willing to travel, we are not in catchment for the good schools, which are oversubscribed. Has anyone else been in this position? How have your children coped with the change? Can a child successfully make it through a bad school with the right support at home?

Original poster

Starsugar · 18/12/2024 09:37

VikingsandDragons · 18/12/2024 09:09

I wouldn't assume that she'll be behind going into state, we've recently moved the other way in year 5 (because he is very able in maths and his primary wasn't providing stretch goals in any way, just bragging that he completed all the maths for the week in the first lesson on Monday then was such a good boy to help his classmates learn for the rest of the week - lovely but he's 9 not a teaching assistant!). English I'd say is very similar, the IT and DT provision is just in a different world (my kids at state primary got 1 hour a week of IT, but only alternate weeks actually involved using a computer, whereas DT was some food tech like making a sandwich but mostly making things out of recyled materials), after school care is obviously pitched differently and the state primary had most of their events for parents during school day, whereas the prep does more after school to fit around work. Our state primary had probably similar outdoor play provision, forest school etc and actually I'd say the kids had a similar amount of PE and activity in their day (daily mile for example) whereas prep relies more on them choosing after school clubs for this. State a lot of science was theoretical whereas prep he has access to the labs so they do more hands on science which has really excited him but I don't think either are really easier or harder, just a slightly different way of teaching. Year 6 is structured very differently because prep don't do SATs but state spend a long time revising the content for SATs, however it does mean any content that was missed will be covered so she's at a similar place before secondary (we have found that he's redone some topics that he'd already covered at state, and some topics especially in IT his prep counterparts have a much more thorough understanding of than he does). This was an outstanding state primary so I really would take it with a pinch of salt how well performing they appear to be (my mum was a teacher in a primary that went from requires improvement to outstanding in the space of a few years, the SLT make a huge difference so see if you can meet with the head of the school you're considering to see their attitude towards their school). The important thing I would say is how nurturing they are. We only have experience of one state primary (our eldest did go through year 6 so we do have experience of sats), and one prep, but his prep is brilliant for treating the children as individuals, using very positive language, fostering confidence and self worth. He has always been a very shy, scared child but the change in him over the last year has been amazing. Some of his primary teachers were similar, but a few were very shouty as a way to control 30 small children in one room and for me the attitude of support and nurture would be the bit that she may struggle with more than any academics so if you haven't yet chosen the primary she's moving to try to meet with anyone you can at them to get a feel for the teaching environment as a whole rather than the academics. I know there is a big attitude of state till secondary, then the secondary is the priority for many people for private if they're doing a few years (we were these people) however having experience of prep now I'd actually say if I could only afford one or the other I'd choose prep every time, because the belief in himself and confidence comes from those earlier years, so in that regard I think your daughter is very lucky to have had the formative early experiences if her prep has been similar. I'm sure she'll thrive in either, it's scary making the move to a new school where she knows no one but all schools do try to make sure new starters are given a buddy or encouraged into a friendship group and hopefully she'll settle very quickly.

Thank you, that's super helpful. I was convinced we should save any money for secondary, but my mum really pushed for the primary age years (with the hope we could carry on through secondary). I can see the difference in confidence she has compared to some other children who haven't had the prep school experience.

The facilities are massively different, most of the primary schools near us don't even have computers. She has been using them since reception, along with DT workshops, science labs, art studio, ect. Class sizes and the way the teachers interact with the children is a worry too. It's a shame all schools can't have the same. At least when it comes to secondary school the facilities do improve again.

OP posts:

SanFranByAir · 18/12/2024 10:12

Starsugar · 18/12/2024 09:37

Thank you, that's super helpful. I was convinced we should save any money for secondary, but my mum really pushed for the primary age years (with the hope we could carry on through secondary). I can see the difference in confidence she has compared to some other children who haven't had the prep school experience.

The facilities are massively different, most of the primary schools near us don't even have computers. She has been using them since reception, along with DT workshops, science labs, art studio, ect. Class sizes and the way the teachers interact with the children is a worry too. It's a shame all schools can't have the same. At least when it comes to secondary school the facilities do improve again.

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Having had the experience of putting a few kids through the state system, I'd say a decent start in primary is more important. Once in secondary school it's very easy for them to be pigeon holed into lower sets and get stuck there if they don't start ahead. It was a huge source of frustration for us.
So if I'd had the money for a limited amout of private education and had to choose between primary and secondary, I'd choose primary.

PrincessAnne4Eva · 18/12/2024 10:29

The comments about "should have applied before the deadline" are incorrect.

There is no deadline for any primary entry after Reception. After that it is always an in-year transfer. The only way OP's child would have been able to start with a whole cohort and with an application deadline for Y5 would be if she lived in a Y5-Y8 middle school system. So it would still be classed as an "in year transfer" whether she started at the beginning of Autumn term or on the last day of summer term or any date in between and the procedure is that of in-year transfer for any time after the start of reception until you get to entry into secondary.

OP we had to do an in-year transfer for DS to start at the beginning of Y1 when we moved house across the country. We were told there were no places at our preferred school. We still put it as our first choice (you get four choices on the form). We were given the other school and had accepted this, bought uniform etc. Literally the day before term started a space came up at our chosen school and he got it. Thankfully we bought generic unbranded uniform without school logos so we didn't have to buy much for the new school as they had the same colours. Because in-year transfers are governed by whether individual pupils start or leave, a space can come up at any moment and the list of schools with spaces is really only accurate for that one day.

If I were you, I'd put at least two of your preferred schools with no spaces as your first choices and put a less good school with spaces for choice 4, or 3 and 4 (if you don't get any schools off your list, they will allocate you a school with a place, so do still consider your preferences for choices 3 and 4, do not leave them blank). You can then go on a waiting list for a space for a higher preference school (so if your first preference has no space, your child can start a different school and go on a waiting list for your first preference), the admissions department at the council will advise on this if you're in this situation.

Good luck!

Rocknrollstar · 18/12/2024 10:34

As a former teacher I would say that most children are like ducks to water and they will readily and quickly adapt. The existing pupils are often on the look out for a newbie to befriend. I did it when I was at school and so did my GS. If the schools are in need of improvement then they will be on the way up. You feel as if you are letting your DD down but you are not. You are doing your best for her and it is no use looking at other people. In any case, the VAT increases haven’t hit home yet and many people are going to be in your position. Try to enrich her education with extra - curricula activities. These don’t have to be paid for - watch documentaries with her, talk to her about politics and history, teach her about nature. I am sure she will be fine.

Biroclicker · 18/12/2024 10:42

My advice is actually speak to parents (don't rely on local Facebook groups) about the local schools. The stereotypes and assumptions about schools that get thrown about are ridiculous. It could well be that these 'awful' schools that are needing improvement etc are actually really nurturing and supportive. Also what is good for one child can be useless for another so whether schools are bad or good can be very subjective.

TickingAlongNicely · 18/12/2024 10:45

With In Year admissions, the spaces available can change quickly.

If there are schools you like, with no spaces Currently, apply for the waiting list. Just be prepared you might he to leave Prep school (and continue paying fees) earlier than planned.

With Secondary... ignore the headline ofsted reports. Theyve been discontinued for a reason. Look at results, progress, subjects, extra curricular etc.

For moving schools.. schools often assign a "buddy" for new pupils. They are used to new pupils and will help them settle.
Be prepared to fill any gaps caused by topics being taught in different order... my younger DD managed to completely miss learning times tables, which was fun in lead up to SATs...

Flustration · 18/12/2024 11:07

I know a few children who went private prep to state second and they are year 11 now and doing well.

I know a few children who moved schools mid-year due to moving house and they also did well. In fact they were very popular as there's nothing more exciting in Year 5 than an unexpected new student joining your class!

There are definitely negatives to this move, but there will also be positives. Your DD will be able to build resilience for transitions which will help her when she moves to secondary school. The education she receives will seamlessly lead into what she'll be studying at her state secondary school. Larger class sizes mean more potential friends. Depending on the area you live in, those friends are possibly more likely to be local than prep school friends. Financially you will be able to offer her more opportunities outside of school and she will be able to take full advantage of any trips and extra curricular activities offered.

NotInvolved · 18/12/2024 11:16

With In Year admissions, the spaces available can change quickly.
If there are schools you like, with no spaces Currently, apply for the waiting list. Just be prepared you might he to leave Prep school (and continue paying fees) earlier than planned.
This is a very good point. I'd actually completely forgotten, but when we moved our DC from private to state our preferred school didn't have a space when we viewed it but we loved it so went on the waiting list more in hope than expectation and kept looking. Within a fortnight we had a call saying there was now a place and we were top of the waiting list but we'd need to accept and start quite quickly. I accepted immediately on the phone and DC moved about 2 weeks later. We had originally hoped to make the move at the end of the year but ended up doing it after the Easter holidays. Obviously I had to pay the Summer term fees anyway as we hadn't given the requisite notice but it was worth it to secure the place that we wanted.
It may vary from place to place but certainly in our county the LEA won't "save" places for in year transfers, if you want one you are expected to take it up promptly if offered. Obviously we could have declined and stayed on the waiting list and hoped that nobody else took that place or another one came up for September but it would have been too much of a risk. So yes, do be prepared for the fact that you may have to make the move quickly and on the LEA's time scale not your own.