Why do church schools perform so well academically?

[coffeeandsleep]

I’ve been looking at primary school options for my child and weighing up state, faith and private/independent.

Looking at published academics of the schools in my area, the faith church schools are at the top.

I wondered why this is - what in particular are they doing to achieve these results?

@taxguru I know, I was sharing my experience on why the faith schools in my town do better. It’s like the threads on private schools- standards and class sizes vary.

This. And in some areas a larger than average proportion of Polish or African heritage children where education is a very high priority in the family.

Here in Surrey the Catholic schools have a superb reputation both academically and pastorally. Obviously a high % of parents invested, but not all! Church attendance and having them baptised for primary, and then holy communion for secondary entrance, so church attendance. But Surrey has a very wide variety of children, some very affluent, many on very low incomes, a high % of free school meals compared to other local boroughs.

And most of the Catholic schools round here have SN centres and take a good % of SN children.

@SensibleSigma

Interesting thoughts but certainly not my experience in any church I've ever been part of. Churchs' are usually one of the most diverse subsections of society.

thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I’m wondering why people jump through so many hoops eg start going to church 2-3 years ahead of applying if the standard of education is the same as local state primary.

That is, if the good results are just due to the demographics it attracts rather than it being something ‘extra’ the school itself is offering.

The percentage of children eligible for FSM in Surrey is 14% compared with over 24% nationally so I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that it has a high %ge of FSM from. It really doesn't, especially when compared to adjacent LEAs.

If they were that good they wouldn't be under-subscribed surely?

In fairness for some families the extra thing the school offers is the religious element. In many cases they prepare children for the sacraments, which is quite a process if not done automatically through school, and get them into the habit of going to mass, teach them the prayers and responses, the hymns, the calendar of feasts...many of my friends are extremely lapsed catholics who nevertheless want their children to have that basic knowledge and foundation.

I visited 13 primary schools when my children were very young as I consider education very important. I was exploring Christianity at the time so I visited 3 faith schools. One is those is still in my mind- it felt like the children were too scared to laugh never mind play. There's no way I would have sent my child to that school regardless of their academic credentials. The other 2 faith schools were ok. In the end our children went to the state primary. They are doing very well in the secondary, top sets in every class

@SuzieNine, sorry maybe that was badly worded. In certain areas of Surrey, certain schools have a very high % of fsm. I only know that because 4 of my friends are chairs in local schools, and they commented on it being high, compared to other schools, and to other neighbouring counties. Whereas presumably in more affluent areas of Surrey, other schools there is very little fsm, so the county average comes down.

Whereas I went to an all-girls Catholic primary and secondary in a poor area in Ireland where virtually all schools are Catholic, and we were animals, notorious for truancy and underage drinking. And very poor educational outcomes. Demographic beat ethos, clearly.

Voluntary Aided school.

Funding is the same as any other.
Inclusive school same as any other.
Mix of ability groups but high PP low EAL presently.
Covering deprived areas but broad range of households

Outstanding in all areas. So excellent teaching.
High attendance is helpful to ensure no gaps.
We get good and not so good years based on the cohort. That is the only variant. The ability of each year group.

@SuzieNine we have a fall in demand across the town- and due to the strict church requirements they don’t get full uptake.

Im a governor at another local school and we’ve moved from 1.5 to 1 form entry due to low roll numbers across the borough.

VA can require church attendance but where I live most CofE is VC. All the Catholic schools are VA and cover vast distances as there aren’t many of them. Green ideals aren’t a Catholic strength. I would prefer local schools for local dc and no hoops. However I would never have considered a Catholic school for my DDs. Our CofE junior was quite benign until it got an evangelist head! Thank goodness mine had left. The church schools are not better here. Most VC ones work on catchment which is fair enough. They don’t get better staff or better parents but VA certainly self selects.

Lots of c of e schools are in naice old villages.

70s/80s estates in new towns tended to have new schools added near them. The relative house price difference vs posh villages means your posh village c of E school often has a more affluent population of well educated parents

Any school which has selection criteria of sort is likely to do better than one that doesn't.

It depends where they are, but usually in cities it's because they attract the best Indian students (studying at Catholic schools is a mark of prestige back there)

The demographics it attracts can massively contribute to the "extras" the school itself is offering though.

Like an IT room vs 15 old/broken/keys missing laptops that everyone fights over.

Like a dedicated PE/Music/whatever teacher rather than the usual class teacher.

Like better facilities due to a very involved PTA /annual contributions.

Like specialised text books/activity books to prep for SATS /tests and not whatever the cheapest phonics scheme is.

Like current, enjoyable and varied reading books rather than biff and chip and the head's old famous five collection.

Like extra events/parental involvement activities.

Like a greater sense of community.

Like a school ethos that the parents want/agree with.

Like

That being said, there's a massive difference between a church school that IS the local school and everyone gets in and a (normally oversubscribed )church school that requires church attendance, baptism certificates, letter from priest etc.

It will depend on the area and the school, whether you get "more" and whether it's worth it.

Some of them perform well because they manage out children who have SEN or who they consider might pull their SATs scores down.

Thanks - useful to see how it could translate into the having extra ‘benefits’

The one in my area is the latter option and requires 2 years of attendance, so I’m trying to weigh up if it is worth the investment of time.

Usually church attendance isn't required at primary but the high schools often require proof of 2 years church attendance which does lend itself to a certain demographic. Black African families with strong Christian and family values and middle class white families who are willing to spend 2 years going to church (per child meaning this could be a long term thing). They also let in a small proportion of other faiths but they all need evidence of regular worship. We are in a position where this is our nearest school and the only one we are in catchment for other than an inner city academy which extremely high transience and my child with be in the minority as having English as his first language. There are a few school we prefer but all are a risk so we will be attending church as a back up. I'm not anti-religion having been raised C of E and attended church as a child but it's not something I'm passionate about.

@coffeeandsleep I forgot another reason, even if not an extra as such.

Some of these faith primaries are feeder schools for faith secondaries, basically you're guaranteed to be in . Depending on the area ,catchments and what's on offer , there can be a very long term plan at play.

Best thing to do is to visit all the schools, talk to people in the community and decide based on what's best for your child and their needs.

@Pigriver Thats not universal. It’s nearly always down to whether school is VA or VC. VA means the school admits its own pupils and is therefore its own admissions authority. VC schools tend to use LA system. Often using catchment in the same way other schools do. These schools rarely confer any great advantage as they are just like community schools. Parents need to know if schools are VA or VC and look at admissions policies. My old secondary was a VA grammar. However it followed the grammar admissions procedures and catchment administered by the LA. No attendance at church required.

Entry criteria don’t apply if a school is undersubscribed - they have to take anyone who applies and can only apply the church attendance criteria etc if they are over-subscribed. However I suspect some schools prefer to give the impression that this is not the case.