School for the practically normal child but not quite

[Catladyagain]

Our gorgeous 6 yo boy is not thriving at our v local, v popular, v academically-focused primary school. He's in Year 2. Lots of school refusal. Bad bedtimes and waking during the night. Feels demoralised by the teacher's constant celebrations of the more naturally gifted kids' contributions (comments / points etc) and finds social interactions challenging at times, particularly in the playground etc. Various behaviours point to v v mild autism and adhd but they are so mild that he's just about keeping up with school's demands, however, regularly, he keeps up very unhappily. One of those who falls 'in-between'.

What to do?

I would be so grateful to hear from anyone who's child has a similarish profile and who you've similarly gone through this kind of issue. His wellbeing is my top priority - his creativity, hard work and emotional intelligence are not getting the recognition or scaffolds at school they deserve.

What are the questions and requests we could make of the school?

What are the questions and requests we could make of other state schools? Are we even likely to get in without moving onto their door steps? Every school near us is at max capacity with wait lists.

How much more can a stressed young child cope with this before we have to give him a new environment or risk self harm / other more serious responses to a situation?

Does anyone know of any schools with lower private school fees where they support the whole child - lots of physical activity throughout the day / creativity / friendly after school provision that caters for kids who need a quieter environment?

Very many thanks in advance.

Ds was that boy, I know where you're coming from.

I remember him describing school awards that he didn't get because he "didn't do anything well enough to get the ones for being really good, and wasn't bad enough to get the awards for being not as bad" which described it quite well.

I was querying ASD/ADHD from reception, but kept being put off by the school saying "he's a summer baby; he'll grow out of it." Yet those who were winter babies and similar were diagnosed younger than he was. He was finally diagnosed with both aged 12/13yo.
That was a relief for him because he knew that it wasn't him it was his brain operating differently (which was what he said).

There were certain things I gradually noticed. One was after they went back to school after lockdown he was being all stroppy on Sunday night. And I remembered that he used to always be stroppy on Sunday nights... and I realised he'd not been stroppy while he wasn't at school. It made me realise how much school effected him, even though he was doing reasonably well, and currently wasn't having a problem going in.
He's school refused for a couple of periods, but have managed to get him back in. He's got a strong friendship group which helps.

I'd push to get the ball rolling for diagnosis. I'm not confident ds would have been diagnosed at that age, but start it moving. For him, both diagnosis were described as on the border between "NT with ASD (or ADHD) traits" or a diagnosis. Both times they decided he did go over the line, and it has made a difference to his confidence and it has given him access to other things that have helped. It also means when I need to talk to the school about something that's bothering him, it gives me an extra angle to ask them to consider.

Thank you so much @everyone for all your thoughtful replies. @BrightYellowTrain really helpful to have this granular detail, thank you. It's very interesting to hear people saying this doesn't sound 'mild'. The reason I assumed 'mild' is that I compare him with another child in his class on a myplan who cries regularly and is often made to sit on the carpet or even sent to another class for disruptive behaviours (poor poor kid). In spite of the extra meetings we have had with the school, they have felt no cause for putting him on extra help. He does not behave disruptively in class, does not explode at school or cry; the only thing they say is that he struggles to follow instructions on the academics. They say he is kind and well liked and regularly makes great contributions in the subject discussions he enjoys. I guess those were my reasons for thinking there is only something mild.

I have worried about my part to play in his struggles - I hate the way the school stamps on creativity and agency, provides little opportunity for physical movement each week and does an arbitrary and very unfair points reward system. How can I say 'school is amazing, go learn lots' when I see THE WAY they are imparting information doesn't support his way of learning and when I see how much it feels wrong to him. While we are so lucky to live in this country with our freedoms, I strongly feel the education system is broken.

For better or worse we've raised him to be very self aware and ever since he began at the school he has talked in many different ways about, essentially, how he feels totally repressed. On beginning year 1, he told me about how awful school had become, weeping regularly with total confusion. He explained how he couldn't 'even' do a drawing he's been asked to do without being 'told off'. He was completely confused that he couldn't play with any toys, that he was regularly 'shouted at' or 'told off' (I know that this was in reference to the way teachers talk to the kids at the school rather than because he was particularly disruptive), isolated on the carpet for talking in class, finding his name on a chart back then that said 'working on it' for being quiet in class (as opposed to the 'achieved it' chart). He said he had to sit down too much, that he does 'nothing fun' and is 'bored' and 'confused' because he's 'doing his best'. That was year 1 and he was telling me that he hadn't had any good days since starting school that term. He has had so many down days since then and Year 2 is now even worse - the sense that in spite of doing his best, he can't get it right.

It feels cruel to me, but this is our school education system?

If he had an iep he could be given movement breaks etc. Most schools do creative activities, are you sure he is not misunderstanding the feedback. If he cannot stay on task independently he may get more promoting , for example.

It feels cruel to me, but this is our school education system?

Nope, sounds like it is that specific school! I agree there is probably somewhere that can meet his needs better. It must be very demoralising for him if he is trying his best and that still isn’t good enough.

Rather than mild, think different presentation.

Just because DS isn’t outwardly disruptive in class doesn’t mean he doesn’t need support. Request another meeting with the SENCO. Remind them they must make their best endeavours to meet DS’s SEN and they must make reasonable adjustments. Follow up the meeting with an email so you have a paper trail as evidence should you require it at a later date.

If DS struggles with instructions, are they breaking down instructions into steps? Checking DS has understood and processed the instructions individually after giving the whole class/group instructions? Have they tried writing the instructions down? Giving a checklist?

If DS struggles with the amount of sitting down, he needs proper movement breaks. Replacing the standard chair with a rocking chair or an exercise ball may help. Other things worth trying include adding bands on the chair legs, a standing desk, exercise pedals underneath the desk.

Are the school doing anything at all to help him?

Some of the things they do at our primary school: movement breaks, noise cancellation ear phones, morning small group interventions for Maths, English, handwriting, 1:1 pastoral support at break and lunch times with a trained TA to chat. Lots of social support for those who need it, pick your own buddy to play etc etc. You really need to go speak to the SENDCO and put it in writing what his struggles are. EHCP or no, they have to support based on actual need.

And obviously he should be getting rewards. They should be based on a child’s progress relative to themselves not anyone else. At least, that is how it is done in our primary.

Some kids are just very very stressed by the sheer noise level in KS1 that a class of 30 makes. And something as simple as the noise cancelling ear phones can really help (put on after the teacher has explained a task).

Oh and wobble cushions help some young kids, a lot.

Get him assessed. Both because then you know what you are dealing with and because every support takes a fight and a long time to achieve.

My ds was considered fine in reception as he never disrupted anything. But really he was so overwhelmed thslat he was essentially just playing dead and crashed and burned in year 1. The school were very supportive from then.

Interestingly today I chatted with a child therapist who works with kids with more pronounced additional needs, who feels that kids should ideally be moved school if the environment doesn't feel right - rather than getting the assessments. Then if the issues persist, then get them. The reasoning being to avoid the child feeling like the problem. Would be interested to hear others views based on their experiences.

@Catladyagain it is right and wrong, the environment is the problem, the same as if someone used a wheelchair and the school wasn't set up for that. It's easier to move schools to a bungalow school with no steps but that doesn't help the person who may have had friends at that school or went there because it was a specialist school in a particular talent of theirs or could end up at a school far away so would have no local friends and a long journey tagged onto the day and the financial cost that brings.

Adjustments that support ND children help all children. Routines, consistency, down time to reset themselves before the afternoon lessons, smaller class sizes. But state schools don't have the money, staffing or buildings to successfully make those adjustments.

My DD got into a selective girls school, unfortunately it was 2020 and they weren't offering scholarships to new students, had we been able to take up the place she wouldn't have needed the assessment because the things that she struggles with wouldn't have been an issue. Class sizes of 20, all sit down meals with staff so not a rowdy diner, less crowded corridors, she could have worked at her own pace instead of finishing work and waiting. However, she may well have struck the same issues at Uni or work and not understood why she felt the way she does or to develop the coping strategies she has to deal with things she finds difficult.

However realistically all state schools are largely the same, they are big and noisy and catering for a whole range of people, her school is the best one for her in the area and I can't complain on their SEN support.

He is either autistic/adhd or he isn't. If there are indicator that he may be, an assessment will only confirm or rule it out, it won't change who he is. If he is neurodivergent he isn't a problem, he has a different way of information processing and needs different support. I would be quite annoyed at any child therapist using that sort of language. Knowledge is power, so understanding your brain is a good thing. If you want some child friendly, neuro affirming resources, check out neurowild on instagram or facebook.

I agree that the right environment can make issues seem to disappear, and is critical.

But, you need the assessment to understand the personality factors that caused the 'wrong environment' issues to help you avoid making the same mistakes in later life & for self awareness.

If my DDs had started school at their tiny school with excellent pastoral care, they would likely not have gotten diagnosed yes that's possibly true - but later on in life they'd have hit various challenges they would be ill equipped to understand.

Issues with school are the leading childhood issues really, and you need to understand the root factors.

What do they say sometimes? A lot of what we call 'autistic behaviour' is the behaviour of a very stressed autistic individual. Environments dot magic away ND but they are important for reducing stress.

It's a terrible shame that all the educational rhetoric is shovelling people into large mainstream schools.

Even when it is the environment that is the problem, moving school without additional support in place could result in jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. If that then leads to the breakdown of a school placement that causes further trauma.

Plus, if you move schools just before an EHCNA request or whilst going through the EHCP process, despite it not being a lawfully reason to refuse, the LA is likely to refuse because DC need time to settle in the new school. Although you would be able to appeal.

Definitely this. I actually just commented on another thread about my 6 yo DS who sounds very similar to yours (also yr 2). He's at a small state school and in a class of 15. The school values more than academic achievement and although he's not great academically, he's happy enough at school and they really help to get the best out of him

Edited to add, the school actually got someone in to assess DS and said he displayed some sensory seeking behaviours but other than that felt there were no concerns at this point

Talk to SENCO - you need them on board to be successful in getting a diagnosis since they depend on having difficulties in more than one setting. It took us until he was 14 to get diagnosis for my DS who has inattentive ADHD - if they are not drawing attention to themselves by having severe behavioural difficulties or being way behind academically they just go under the radar, masking and struggling. He is do much better with meds and support in place and a lot of the stress we all went through could have been much easier if we had understood him and teachers had made adjustments much earlier. He did have assessment in Y6 but didn’t show ‘enough’ difficulty in school at that point. Even at secondary when he was really struggling it took us insisting that every teacher fill in the ASHD screening questionnaire for them to agree there actually was an issue and he wasn’t just difficult/not paying attention in their particular lesson. Much stress alleviated just by having them off his back and not nit picking constantly for fiddling/wrong equipment etc

i think it depends - if you have a clear alternative school that better aligns with dc needs, then absolutely move. If you don’t fully understand dc needs or if all the schools are pretty similar then an assessment would probably provide more value in terms of insight and leverage.

But moving a child absolutely is sending the message to that child that they are the problem!

It's interesting that a child therapist would present an autism diagnosis as 'the child being the problem' - I'd like to look at their credentials and experience.

Self awareness of areas you may struggle more in doesn't make you the problem...

And similarly, you can move schools or get out of bad situations without accepting that you are the problem. A lot of this is in how things are presented.

All fair points thanks @everyone . In respect of theady I spoke to, it was not a proper consultation- she gave me 10 minutes of her own time as she didn't have capacity. So she didn't have full picture and wasn't saying that an autism diagnosis would mean the child necessarily feels they have a problem. As everyone says, it's how you communicate it.