Grammer Schools by CAT assesment

[FlyingHigh55]

Dc has just had her cat assessment in school and has scored quite well ( average 124) and we are looking for a grammer school to aim for. There two nearest to us are over an hour away and do not suit us for various other reasons.

Some private schools indicate what their average cat score is. Do grammer schools do the same? It's there a list I can see.

Plenty of grammar schools in the South West counties. Where we are you don’t need to be a genius or have years of 1:1 tutoring to get in. Just need to be bright, working mainly at greater depth in most subjects, a desire to learn, a desire to want to go to a GS, and good prep on verbal reasoning as state school kids won’t have come across it before. Our local grammar schools don’t have a set pass mark like others do, it changes each year. They use the GL test papers, English, Maths and VR.

No idea if DD had a CAT score in Primary School. She passed the 11+ at about 20 points over the minimum pass mark, and did well in her SATS (score 115/117/119).

Thanks to this is exactly what I'm looking for, I will look around the area. London is definately out for us.

What about Bournemouth and Poole? They’ve got a grammar school each and a bit more cosmopolitan than Devon without completely loosing the SW beach feel.

I think 124 is a pretty decent score, it’s top 10%. No, probably wouldn’t ensure a place at a super selective but it’s very respectable. I would also consider seeing a tutor for 11+ to get some practice in a lot of kids are tutored at various points. You may find with a bit of tuition and practice she could do very well.

That score puts you in the top 5% of the country, I think that's extremely remarkable. Tutoring doesn't make you smarter just teaches you how to pass exams . Without the raw talent your not passing anything.

I'm looking at what grammer to aim for then dd will get tutoring for it. If she gets in great, of not then she goes to the local comp. We prefer a selective school otherwise we would go to the local comp where only 43% of kids get grade 5 or above in GCSEs.

Being frank this is not an option for us so we need to move. Grammer if she can get in, or better comprehensives around if she can't.

@FlyingHigh55 i don’t think it’s particularly high in any area within transport to a popular grammar.

OP despite people pointing out by numerous posters it is grammAr you insist on using grammer it is like you are trying to wind people up and not listening to other advice.

When you say the score puts your child in top 5% bear in mind that many many do not take that test so wonder how accurate that assumption is. My daughter didn’t take the tests you refer to, she is now at Cambridge in the top third of her year for her subject and 70% went to state schools like she did and didn’t take the test you are referring to.

Look also at the compare school government tool which will show you how schools do for those with previous higher achievement, middle etc, this is based on SATs. Just because a comprehensive doesn’t get amazing GCSE grades doesn’t make it bad, it is where it is starting from. Another indication is the Progress 8 score, how it does with those from the baseline of its cohort.

@FlyingHigh55 just bear in mind that in grammar school areas such as Bucks, the alternative schools are secondary moderns. That terminology is no longer used, but that is just semantics - the non-grammar schools are not comprehensives because they are not educating 25-30% of the children who live in the area.

Did you have any luck on the elevenplus forum?
I found that really useful, although I wasn't trying to move county at the time.

Sorry if I'm winding you up I don't mean to.

But really you are going so off topic, I really don't want advice about what's best for my kid. Or start a debate about grammars and comprehensives.

My question was is there a list published of grammar requirements. I've realised there isn't. But private companies like Atom etc have compiled their own lists andseem to excel in understanding requirements and giving tutoring.

I expect one of the first thing they teach kids is....Please read the question before answering.

Yes some of the links given here were really useful. I've realised it's so very county based or even individual grammer based. So I really have to get researching.

It all seems so very un-joined up ( if that's a word)

Oh thing47 I'm so confused ! I tried goggling but didn't understand. So is a secondary modern different to a comprehensive ? I would call comprehensive "a normal school", and grammar "selective"!

Yes we love both places! Now doing research :-)

If you take 25-30% of the children out of circulation and put the majority in a grammar school, the "normal" schools are no longer normal because you are missing the cohort at the top.

This means that the non-grammar schools are no longer comprehensive as they don't have a normal distribution of ability.

Hence why people always warn about moving to a full grammar area as the options if your child doesn't get into the grammar are not always great, and if you have a child who is very bright and academic but has a blip on the day then they may find themselves without a similar peer group in their secondary school.

My personal take is that super-selective is better - you provide a bespoke education for those who are true outliers, without affecting the balance of other schools in the area.

We went for a very large comprehensive that uses setting for all subjects, and I reckon it provides a better education than my super-selective did, Vastly more choice of subjects, better facilities (grammar schools get less money as they are seen as teaching an easier cohort) and less stress. Plenty of kids come out with a string of grade 9s, over 50% of the year got 7-9 in Maths GCSE last year and a decent cohort for medicine/Oxbridge every year.

The Bournemouth and Poole grammar schools are single sex and all sit the same test papers. But the Bournemouth schools offer their spaces based on the top 120 scores, regardless of catchment. So they have people applying from all over. Then outside of the top 120 is offered on distance to the school. The Poole grammar schools typically offer to the top 15% and priority Poole postcode catchment children get priority (both schools operate the usual priority of looked-after etc). Typically everyone in Poole priority catchment area that passes will be offered a space and there are always children outside of catchment that get offered a space (in the wider Dorset area).

Ah OK thank you. Yes that makes a lot of sense. At the moment dd is in a school with very few in her peer group and we find she's not thriving in it.

Thank you for this! I want her to be in the right peer group a class where kids are bright and striving to get their grades, somewhere ambitious. My thoughts were it could only be in a grammar. But yes a large comprehensive with sets would suit her as well. And the amount of grammars around are a factor. Hmmm. Need to think more...

Once again thank you 😊 🙏🏼 ☺️

Definitely look at all the options available, especially if you are already considering a house move.

I looked at 27 schools for secondary - and that really helped to sort things in my mind.

Work out what your priorities are, have a checklist and get visiting early. Also work out exactly what your child is really like - not the one you'd like to have on paper, but what is actually in front of you and find the best school for them rather than the most prestigious, or hardest to get into.

Lots of people will think smaller is better, and large can be too anonymous and their child will get lost. In our experience, large is great as more teachers, more resources, often a much bigger offer for extra curricular and for subject options. If your DD likes sport then also a bigger cohort for teams (DD's comp even offer archery and horse riding as sports).

I initially pointed to the elevenplusforum which you said to another poster was also helpful but you picked out all the things that you wanted to take offence to. I was trying to help. And yes I can read questions but as you’ve found out there isn’t always a simple answer. I’ve helped lots of young people through about 10 different grammar schools over about 15 years so not coming from a point of no information.

I don't know that Atom excel, there have been posts on here where a child who's been doing well on Atom tests scores much less on the actual exam, I wouldn't rely on Atom alone.

In our experience, Atom was wide off the mark
in both directions - CAT turned out to be much higher in real life, HBS score somewhat lower. It cannot be used as a precise predictor.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow has already explained very clearly, but as to what a secondary modern is, its essentially a comprehensive minus the 25-30% who have gone to a grammar.

Please don't assume DCs who go to a secondary modern aren't ambitious, though OP. There are all sorts of reasons a child might not get the 11+ qualifying mark. One of mine didn" t and now has a first class Masters from one of the most renowned institutions in the world (for her field of study).