Five A-levels too much?

[MumO5]

My son has just started his Lower Sixth year and either wants to do Law at university (he has Oxbridge and the U.S in mind) or Biology/Biochemistry.

His current A-levels are Biology, Chemistry, Maths and History but he is leaning more to the social science route and thinks that doing another social science A-level will help him stand out more compared to other applicants and will make Oxbridge he's more qualified for that specific course.

He says U.S universities like Princeton and Harvard want students who took the most rigorous course load possible so it would also give him a great edge in that.

He is thinking of either English Literature or Economics.

I think he's capable as he got 9 A*s and one A at GCSE but is there any truth to what he's saying?

Either you are exceptionally gifted or the workload when you did yours wasn't as intense as it is these days. Did you take A levels when they were coupled with AS levels?

Back in the day when AS levels were a thing A levels were more modular, and young people only sat exams for a year's worth of content at a time. Now they are back to having to remember two years worth of content.

The course we went to see was very explicit - I was surprised. They said don't do four - it adds no value (from an Oxford admissions perspective)

Doing an external a level in a language you are competent at but the school doesn’t teach (or you can’t be timetable for for whatever reason) is very different to trying to teach yourself a new subject from scratch.

The former is just getting a formal qualification for something he can already 75% do. The latter is lots of new learning.

I did six A-levels back in the day (plus General Studies) before AS was even a thing. I couldn't do that now; they've changed a lot (I'm a teacher). And the university scene has changed completely. So, stick to three (except for FM), as everyone says!

Sorry - another build. Think the fact that many private schools do four might also why the were so explicit about it - much of the admissions talk was focused on opening up access, and if four was given extra weighting, it might favour private school pupils?

I think it is completely irrelevant for people to post what they did when A levels were modular.
They only sat half the content for each exam in years 12 and 13.

I went to Cambridge Admissions talk a couple of weeks ago on the Open Day. They don't expect even 4 A levels (other than folks doing maths and further maths) and certainly not 5.
He is far far better off doing less A levels and concentrating on the super curricular stuff. Oxbridge will set great store by this, what have you read/done outside of the A level course but that is relevant to the subject you want to study. So if he has spare time, write essays for competitions, go to lectures etc. Forget the 5th A level

Fwiw, I know at few kids who got places at Oxbridge this year and only one had done 4 As and that was maths.

The thing that set them apart in my view is that they were genuinely obsessed with their subjects and knew lots of relevant contemporary things about them.

Definitely not! I did five but only because one was a language I was fluent in anyway 😅 four was manageable but stressful towards the end

@Thismighthelp - interesting. But I don’t think the implication that doing four could work against you/they don’t notice a fourth is quite right though.

Obviously, no-one should do four if it’s going to be too much and impact the overall results. But if a kid can manage four and do very well, it’s not like Oxbridge would ‘dislike’ that - as it indicates a student’s ability to manage a heavy workload. They won’t actively favour candidates with four, no - but it’s impressive if a student manages and does well…

I did five A-levels (quite a few years ago now) but I would definitely NOT recommend. It seemed perfectly manageable in the beginning (free classes were time off for everyone else so I just had no frees in school) but as time when on, I just didn't have the time to study everything (free classes that everyone else had became the time they could study). Particularly hectic around exam time. I wanted to know everything and thought I could do it all.

I did 5, plus general studies, but it was pre-2017. I had enough time on top of that for parties, scouts, volunteering - the school reading scheme, TAing bottom set maths and volunteering outside school as well, a part time job, friends and learning to drive.

But I genuinely found my A levels easy - I got through AS level maths studying just in lesson time in a single term, and they were maths, further maths, biology, chemistry and physics so they were heavily aligned with one another. I was quite tempted to add AS french and/or Latin on top because I loved them both but I just didn't think I would have the time and I wanted to have time to have friends etc, but I still sometimes wish I had squeezed one in.

However, I don't think there's any harm in getting the books to study a 5th at home, on the proviso he gives it up if it's too much.

I think the difficulty is that the easiest to study at home is probably one of the sciences/maths and it sounds like he's already started that. As presumably if he takes another essay subject you'd particularly benefit from the discussions in class and someone marking your essays which I think would be much harder. And then on top of that, given he needs to be able to give it up, he can't do that with his core subject.

I think from the point of view of being of benefit to an Oxbridge application, I think the answer here is no, it won't be. The only reason to do it would be because he genuinely loves the subject and wants to study it. A single essay subjects + sciences will be perfectly good for studying law and for studying biology/biochemistry.

I think five is too many. My dc and his friends have started four. They have less study periods than others and more work to do outside of class ( obviously). Five will be even worse.

I doubt his college will allow him to. I guess they won't get any extra funding and it's educationally unsound

If good at Math that A level will be 'easy' so 4 is do able I got 3A* this year and its common for people to take Further Math as their 4th A level. But you could do any subject I think. However it does add to the workload I was happy that Math was easy compared to Bio and Chem and my revision was spent mostly on those. He sounds able but I also had 9 9s an 8 and a 7 at GCSE and wouldn't think of doing 5 A levels! But I also like to just do what I need only and no more as long as I do it well so that's why I only took 3 subjects

So in short by all means take 4 subjects, 5 is a stretch but can always drop a subject if needed. I wouldn't have even had enough school hours for them to teach 5 I don't think. But some schools may provide it. Just think long term when it comes to applying etc and having less time than he has now will he he able to cope with the A level workload.

4 excellent A level grades would be better than 5 good ones - they're more work than GCSEs

Cambridge ask for 2 out of maths, english, history and a language for social sciences, which he has. And then one other.

5 is madness.

I think they would prefer 3 A Levels and an EPQ, or something additional that helps him to stand out. I don't think they favour a large amount of A Levels over the standard 3. In fact, this was spoken about at my son's sixth form parent meeting recently.

Statistically around 68% do 3 A levels, less than 5% do 4 A levels and the vast majority of those are taking further maths which is more of an add on subject than a completely separate subject. Both of mine took 4 A levels, Ds2 has just gone to Warwick uni last month.

Only 1 person took 5 A levels a couple of years ago and got into MIT in the US. They were the only one though. Yes there is time in the timetable to do this in school but it isn't about that, it is the expected work load for homework that can eat into their time.

As far as UK unis are concerned acing out 3 is better with additional supercurriculars to show their love of the subject. For the US they generally want breadth and it doesn't always have to be A levels. There are a few MNetters whose children are in US colleges. Have a look on the Higher Education Board.

It would come across as somewhat pointless and self indulgent. Participation in sport (particularly at a high level or as a lifeguard), voluntary activities, learning a language to a high level, are all things looked at favorably. They also involve social connections, rather than sitting alone studying.

He really doesn't understand the Oxford and Cambridge application process. For humanities he can safely drop one of the sciences and potentially FM unless he is planning to apply for economics. Add an EPQ related to what he is considering applying for. Job done.

Also they have no interest in volunteering, sporting activities, or D of E. Obviously the US system prefers the exact opposite.

Five is not an advantage anywhere. U.K. universities will only be interested in his top 3 and 5 may reduce his chances of getting A*s. US universities would be more interested in his extracurricular pursuits. Particularly service / charitable activities, but also some high levels sports or music. They want to see a well-rounded, commuted person, not just a hard grafter. If he must do anything else, the extended project qualification would be worth considering.