City of London boys school / performance

[chamaya]

Hi all

i am currently exploring independent secondary schools in London for my boys and have my eye on a few that would be convenient to access. One of them is City of London Boys school. I had always thought it was a top academic institution but it seems results have declined sharply and that the school is more in line with schools like Dulwich college in terms of GCSE/A levels results and destination universities. Is there a reason why City of London Boys has experienced this drop? What are the thoughts on this? Is the school purposely shifting towards a less selective and more holistic approach?

I understand that academic results aren’t everything but when paying significant fees, it is important to weigh whether the cost is justified.

Also regarding the upcoming vat changes, I know some schools are absorbing part of the increase. Is City also doing this?

Many thanks for sharing your thoughts/experience.

How many years back are you looking at their results? Remember that year cohorts will differ and any school will have better years and less good years, results-wise. The last time I checked, CLSB was still at least top 15/20 in the UK overall, which would make it top 10/15 for boys / mixed schools (2024 Sunday Times Parent Power supplement).

As for your fees / VAT question - your best bet is to contact the bursar. I would expect that like most independent schools, they will be able to absorb a small amount of the VAT raise by claiming back on capital expenditure, so would be looking to raise by somewhere between 12 and 16%. But check with them as they'll have planned for this.

I was under the impression that CLS’s results these days were better than, say, a decade ago (though even then those were very good results). It may have fallen slightly from its highest league table rankings but results will vary year-to-year for all schools. It’s still ranked very highly, and I think its 2024 results were outstanding. I would think more about whether you want a single-sex school for your boys and also whether a very urban environment would suit them, particularly if they play field sports (football/cricket) as the sports fields are a coach ride away.

Just checked the Sunday Times Parent Power supplement for 2024 and CLSB is ranked 15th overall with 94.9% of A-level results at A to B and 92.4% at 9/8/7 for GCSE. Dulwich College, which you mention, is ranked joint 45th with 86.6% of A-level results at A to B and 92.3% at 9/8/7 for GCSE.

So, i'm not sure where you're getting your 'declined sharply' information from...

Yes, definitely not the case - results are great. Another indication (not that it is all-important or decisive) is Oxbridge admissions. 32% of CLS applicants got into Oxbridge this year - same percentage as St Paul's School:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-schools-get-the-most-pupils-in/

Though their percentages (Oxbridge admissions / applicants) are similar, I find it surprising that only half of the CLS sixth form year (80 out of approx 160) applied, whereas about 80% applied from St Paul’s (161 out of approx 200). I expected it to be higher!

Yes, CLS has similar number of applicants to Oxbridge as Highgate (93), North London Collegiate (78), Latymer Upper (89) etc. It is Eton, St Paul's and Westminster that have 160+ applicants to Oxbridge. I guess these 3 schools attract more the type of families for whom it's Oxbridge or bust. I know CLS families whose top choice was UCL or LSE.

It’s interesting, and you’re probably right @Hatcher, it’s mostly to do with the types of families the schools attract. I know many CLS boys go on to universities overseas (quite a few in America). Perhaps just an adventurous and internationally-inclined bunch!

Re. VAT at CLS, i hear CLS is planning on charging the full VAT which seems a bit harsh (and unlike most independent schools).

Also, what are the thoughts around this table - CLS boys ranking 27th! Is it reliable?
https://www.londonpreprep.com/2024/08/gcse-results-2024-top-100-london-day-schools/

Also had a look at GCSE results https://www.cityoflondonschool.org.uk/school-life/academic/exam-results/, English language is scoring very low (not just this year) - lower than our local state secondary school. Seems odd!

We loved the open day at CLS (nice well spoken down to earth boys, liked the location/premises..etc) and it could be the right fit for us but just want to make sure it is ticking all the right boxes (academically as well) especially if a full 20% is going to be added on. Any feedback welcome!

Has CLS increased in size? I always thought it had around 140 per year but the GCSE results pages show 175 in 2024 and just under 160 in 2023, while in 2022 it was about 140. I wonder if this increase has led to a slight drop in results.

I would not be surprised, but I heard the Junior school was looking to absorb all of it….these are all rumours. Most schools have absorbed 8%.
highgate, St Paul’s and Westminster have not given any details yet.
St Paul’s will be interesting as the new junior school cost around 32m so that’s 6m of VAT to be claimed back…..

I hear from parents at CLS that the school is working on how to absorb. Given its hybrid status (public/ptivate), it’s complex and the devil is on the details of the legislation, which hasn’t been finalised. The sense is that they will come up with a good solution. Though the school is very sought-after, they still want to keep it affordable.

The school provides a lot of bursaries as well. I heard 15% of the Y7 (first form) year is receiving some sort of bursary. For those not receiving full bursaries, the addition of VAT to remaining fees will be quite hard for some families I’d imagine.

Are most of the bursaries provided by the school or by the City of London Corporation through external charitable trusts? My understanding is that when the school charges a reduced (or zero) tuition, they will be required to collect reduced (or zero) VAT, but that if a bursary is provided by an external organization, the school will be required to collect VAT on the full tuition.

Westminster is adding the full 20%

Highgate have given details to current parents. Perhaps you mean they have not made any public communications to prospective parents?

I don’t think I should share details here other than to say that they are trying to absorb some of it and that the admissions people can probably give details on request.

Most schools that are absorbing are doing 8% and passing on 12%.
Really surprised by Westminster, as they've recently been working on the new building, would have thought they could absorb a decent chunk....but I guess they can probably double fees and they will still be oversubscribed.

Just seen that they have updated their fees page and only mention the following:

The fees listed above are without VAT. On 29 July 2024, the Chancellor announced that as of 1 January 2025, all education services supplied by a private school will be subject to VAT at the standard rate of 20%.

So from this it seems that they are applying the full 20%…….

I am a current parent at the school. I can assure you that they are absorbing some of the impact.

Just heard that Northbridge House is only applying 12.5%.

Waiting on Westminster, St Paul's, City and UCS now.

Westminster has increased 20%

Considering the spend on preparing the new building for 4+ students, I would have thought they could claim some back.

Just heard UCS +18%.

Can I just suggest everyone checks this point very carefully?

An indy we are looking at has published a statement on its website saying “With the imposition of VAT from January, the term tuition fee from January will be £X, to which VAT must be added making it £Y per term.”

So you would be left thinking they are passing on the full 20% increase.

However, in fact they are dropping their net termly figure, meaning in practice they are passing on about 17.5% of the increase. This is only apparent if you dig around for the now “historic” fee for this current term (I had to go into one of those archive websites to dig this out).

This may not be an issue if you already have kids at the school so are familiar with the current fee, but it’s bizarre they aren’t making it clearer to prospective parents, as they should be using it as a marketing point!

@TheWrongBus I guess every school is different, KCS are reducing fees by 7%, so a 12% increase to parents after VAT.
Hampstead Hill reducing fees by 10%, hence only an 8% increase to parents after VAT.
So not sure a school that is doing a 2% reduction in fees is something that stands out.

I'm not saying it stands out, but it's on a par with other indies local to where we are. And they could and should say "We have worked hard to absorb some of these costs so are passing on only 17.5% of the increase" rather than giving the wrong impression that they've slapped on 20% without giving it a second thought.

My point was more that people should double check because schools may say "VAT will be added at 20%" but that doesn't necessarily mean the total payable fees will be increasing by 20%. But perhaps other schools have been better at explaining and communicating this!