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Education

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Thread 2: VAT on school Fees- High court challenge

1000 replies

EHCPerhaps · 10/09/2024 11:40

Following on from thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5160565-vat-on-school-fees-high-court-challenge

Background to legal challenge (not yet a case):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13824931/amp/Single-mother-autistic-child-launches-High-Court-challenge-Labours-private-schools-VAT-raid-claiming-violates-daughters-right-education.html

Sorry to begin a new thread, OP, but your thread filled up very quickly!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Marchesman · 09/10/2024 19:30

Sunshineonarainyday80 · 09/10/2024 13:59

I wouldn't give them the time of day if they are going to describe your posts as being pseudo-intellectual - it's frankly just condescending snd symptomatic of someone who clearly think they are superior to others.

Pseudo-intellectual is an interesting term. In a context such as this, it also signals hypocrisy, an amusing lack of self awareness, and poor judgement.

I will take your very good advice. Thank you.

Newbutoldfather · 10/10/2024 08:25

It is interesting to note that @Marchesman is a single issue poster with hundreds of anti VAT in private schools, but none on any other subject.

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

EasternStandard · 10/10/2024 09:22

Newbutoldfather · 10/10/2024 08:25

It is interesting to note that @Marchesman is a single issue poster with hundreds of anti VAT in private schools, but none on any other subject.

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

Not sure about searching posts like this but posters can discuss any topic on here. It doesn’t have to be related to parenting activity

Although education is up there for me anyway.

And it’s a great shame Labour and Phillipson show such contempt for part of it and no scrutiny for the impact on all of it.

Barbadossunset · 10/10/2024 09:35

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

Newbut as EasternStandard points out, posters can discuss anything on here. Why do you think it’s an ‘interesting’ reason?

SolarPlexis110 · 10/10/2024 09:40

Newbutoldfather · 10/10/2024 08:25

It is interesting to note that @Marchesman is a single issue poster with hundreds of anti VAT in private schools, but none on any other subject.

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

Welcome to Mumsnet, where people change user names for separate issues, and on different threads. Or did you only just find that out? That poster probably has a different name for different topics. Doesn't take away from their posts on this particular thread though, and I've found them to be well reasoned and argued.

EndlessLight · 10/10/2024 10:21

Newbutoldfather · 10/10/2024 08:25

It is interesting to note that @Marchesman is a single issue poster with hundreds of anti VAT in private schools, but none on any other subject.

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

Or Marchesman NC for this topic.

Mrsbabbecho · 10/10/2024 10:29

Newbutoldfather · 10/10/2024 08:25

It is interesting to note that @Marchesman is a single issue poster with hundreds of anti VAT in private schools, but none on any other subject.

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

I can’t think of a better reason to join than to discuss spiteful policy and rhetoric aimed at disrupting the lives of your children. It’s why I joined.

Barbadossunset · 10/10/2024 10:43

Newbutoldfather do you check the posting history of everyone on this thread?

CatkinToadflax · 10/10/2024 10:45

Barbadossunset · 10/10/2024 10:43

Newbutoldfather do you check the posting history of everyone on this thread?

I have to say I wondered this too 😶

Sunshineonarainyday80 · 10/10/2024 11:17

CatkinToadflax · 10/10/2024 10:45

I have to say I wondered this too 😶

Well if they do they'll see I'm in Marchesman's camp too. It's absolutely an appropriate forum to join to discuss this issue.

I expect they were trying to suggest we're all tories infiltrating mumsnet. The idea is preposterous to me - I am v anti-tory in fact.

Mrsbabbecho · 16/10/2024 23:02

Sunshineonarainyday80 · 10/10/2024 11:17

Well if they do they'll see I'm in Marchesman's camp too. It's absolutely an appropriate forum to join to discuss this issue.

I expect they were trying to suggest we're all tories infiltrating mumsnet. The idea is preposterous to me - I am v anti-tory in fact.

It’s laughable considering the education tax can’t be anything but politically motivated.

Lookslikemeemaw · 20/10/2024 13:43

Newbutoldfather · 10/10/2024 08:25

It is interesting to note that @Marchesman is a single issue poster with hundreds of anti VAT in private schools, but none on any other subject.

An interesting reason to join a parenting forum.

It’s entirely up to posters to choose topics that they are or aren’t interested in, and want to post on.
Doesn’t make their opinions any less valid than yours…

Lookslikemeemaw · 20/10/2024 13:45

And I say that as someone who 100 % backs private schools paying fair tax, losing their charity status, VAT on fees … sooner the better.

prestolondon · 21/10/2024 08:14

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes down in January. No doubt in the coming years there will be complaints about grammar schools not having enough places, larger state school sizes and quite frankly I for one will grab my popcorn and watch it all unfold.

Mrsbabbecho · 21/10/2024 10:24

Lookslikemeemaw · 20/10/2024 13:45

And I say that as someone who 100 % backs private schools paying fair tax, losing their charity status, VAT on fees … sooner the better.

A fair education tax would be across the board education taxing including nurseries, universities as well as state school parents putting their hands in their pockets and contributing something towards their own childrens education as PS parents do.

Anyway they are no longer proposing removing charity status. The idea is that PS continue to fund bursaries, scholarships and open their facilities to state schools. All well thought through obviously.

Lookslikemeemaw · 21/10/2024 10:55

‘A fair education tax would be across the board education taxing including nurseries, universities as well as state school parents putting their hands in their pockets and contributing something towards their own childrens education as PS parents do.’

State parents pay tax, just as private school parents do. Some of this tax goes towards educating the children of this country. State parents already ‘put their hands in their pockets.’

If you decide to not use the state system and use private companies to educate your child, entirely your choice.

Mrsbabbecho · 21/10/2024 11:05

Lookslikemeemaw · 21/10/2024 10:55

‘A fair education tax would be across the board education taxing including nurseries, universities as well as state school parents putting their hands in their pockets and contributing something towards their own childrens education as PS parents do.’

State parents pay tax, just as private school parents do. Some of this tax goes towards educating the children of this country. State parents already ‘put their hands in their pockets.’

If you decide to not use the state system and use private companies to educate your child, entirely your choice.

Now you get it.

Quodraceratops · 21/10/2024 11:09

Lookslikemeemaw · 21/10/2024 10:55

‘A fair education tax would be across the board education taxing including nurseries, universities as well as state school parents putting their hands in their pockets and contributing something towards their own childrens education as PS parents do.’

State parents pay tax, just as private school parents do. Some of this tax goes towards educating the children of this country. State parents already ‘put their hands in their pockets.’

If you decide to not use the state system and use private companies to educate your child, entirely your choice.

Most state school parents will not be net contributors to the state finances so they are not 'putting their hands in their pockets'.

ichundich · 21/10/2024 12:02

EndlessLight · 10/10/2024 10:21

Or Marchesman NC for this topic.

If that's your criticism you've run out of arguments.

EndlessLight · 21/10/2024 12:41

ichundich · 21/10/2024 12:02

If that's your criticism you've run out of arguments.

What on earth you talking about. It wasn’t a criticism. It was an explanation as to why someone may only post about one topic under a certain name. Rather than being “a single issue poster” as pp posted. Name changing is a perfectly valid option and many on MN name change for different topics.

Lookslikemeemaw · 21/10/2024 13:18

Quodraceratops · 21/10/2024 11:09

Most state school parents will not be net contributors to the state finances so they are not 'putting their hands in their pockets'.

Sorry, what??? And how have you come up with that? I would use some language here but do not want to get the post deleted.
This kind of comment BOILS my piss. If you genuinely believe that 7% of the private school users are propping up the entire fucking country, well, all I can say is - it’s probably a good job your kids are getting a leg up in society. I’m not sure inherited brain cells are going to get them very far.

Araminta1003 · 21/10/2024 13:21

The children of approximately 50% of top 1 % earners attend private schools. That 1% does pay significant amount of tax.

So the answer is it is 50/50 state and private schools currently. But with VAT - more will go state and top up with tutoring and possibly work fewer hours and pay more into pensions. Net net we will be worse off because the VAT itself is ideological and wont’t generate as much money as it will lose/cost the state.

ichundich · 21/10/2024 13:50

EndlessLight · 21/10/2024 12:41

What on earth you talking about. It wasn’t a criticism. It was an explanation as to why someone may only post about one topic under a certain name. Rather than being “a single issue poster” as pp posted. Name changing is a perfectly valid option and many on MN name change for different topics.

Yes, quoted the wrong person. My post was aimed at the user questioning the motives of posters who only contribute to one topic.

Mrsbabbecho · 21/10/2024 15:16

Lookslikemeemaw · 21/10/2024 13:18

Sorry, what??? And how have you come up with that? I would use some language here but do not want to get the post deleted.
This kind of comment BOILS my piss. If you genuinely believe that 7% of the private school users are propping up the entire fucking country, well, all I can say is - it’s probably a good job your kids are getting a leg up in society. I’m not sure inherited brain cells are going to get them very far.

Ugh this comment made me cringe. You need a salary around £41k to become a net contributor, the average salary is £36k so most state school parents won’t be net contributors. That’s all @Quodraceratops wrote.

Please don’t allow yourself to be so easily duped by labour’s rhetoric and give things a little bit of thought. PS parents pay an enormous proportion of their salary in tax as well as not using state funds (7k per child) to educate their children.

Quodraceratops · 21/10/2024 17:22

Lookslikemeemaw · 21/10/2024 13:18

Sorry, what??? And how have you come up with that? I would use some language here but do not want to get the post deleted.
This kind of comment BOILS my piss. If you genuinely believe that 7% of the private school users are propping up the entire fucking country, well, all I can say is - it’s probably a good job your kids are getting a leg up in society. I’m not sure inherited brain cells are going to get them very far.

You've misunderstood my point. Adults in the UK are only net contributors to the tax system if they are in the top 40% of earners. Over half the adult population are net beneficiaries- they receive more in direct benefits (universal credit and so on) and indirect benefits (NHS, schools) than they contribute in taxes - PAYE, VAT and so on. Therefore most adults with children in state schools are unlikely to be making a significant financial contribution to said schools. The UK tax system is already very progressive and a large chunk of the tax take is from the highest earners. The middle earners pay less than in many EU countries.

https://cps.org.uk/research/the-progressivity-of-uk-taxes-and-transfers/

The progressivity of UK taxes and transfers - The Centre for Policy Studies

The past 30 years has seen an increasing proportion of the population of total households becoming overall net recipients of the state, writes Ryan Bourne in The progressivity of UK taxes and transfers

https://cps.org.uk/research/the-progressivity-of-uk-taxes-and-transfers

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