Thread 2: VAT on school Fees- High court challenge

[EHCPerhaps]

Following on from thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/education/5160565-vat-on-school-fees-high-court-challenge

Background to legal challenge (not yet a case):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13824931/amp/Single-mother-autistic-child-launches-High-Court-challenge-Labours-private-schools-VAT-raid-claiming-violates-daughters-right-education.html

Sorry to begin a new thread, OP, but your thread filled up very quickly!

No, state grammar.

Assuming you're talking about one of the top ones. In this case it makes perfect sense. Won't work for average schools though

Never said it would. I’m thankful that he and his classmates have that option. If it was up to Labour, they wouldn’t.

That sounds great for the right student @Boohoo76

I think middle dc here would enjoy that challenge

I agree that it won’t suit all children. It should be available to all those it does suit though. All children should be able to access a school which suits them.

People who are saying 12 or even 13 GCSEs suit their children don’t really know, though. It is not as if they can compare what their children would have been like if they had sat fewer GCSEs.

Within the educational community, though, a lot of schools who used to be in the race to sit huge numbers of GCSEs have removed themselves from it, and some even from the league tables, believing that there is more to education.

Even one of the exam boards think that the Idea of the more the better is overdone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cwyj0x1dje2o

As I said on this or another thread, one of the most academic private schools in London used to do double award science, not because they didn’t think the pupils couldn’s easily achieve 9s in triple award, but because they wanted to go narrower and deeper, knowing that the students who pursued science could easily catch up the extra content over the summer hols.

No one who has chosen a school which does 12 GCSEs is going to say it is a bad idea, especially if their children are on track for great grades, but I doubt many will be doing that many in 10 years time, regardless of ability.

Tbf I trust Ds’ school and am happy with how he is going and what they are providing

Interesting to hear views on it

People who are saying 12 or even 13 GCSEs suit their children don’t really know, though. It is not as if they can compare what their children would have been like if they had sat fewer GCSEs.

People who are saying 8 or 9 GCSEs suit their children don’t really know either, because they can’t compare what their children would have been like had they sat more.

I don’t see the problem with children sitting 10 or 11 if they and their parents are happy with it.

@Another76543 ,

‘People who are saying 8 or 9 GCSEs suit their children don’t really know either, because they can’t compare what their children would have been like had they sat more.’

No, that is kind of what I am saying. Parents’ anecdotes don’t make for good educational research.

‘I don’t see the problem with children sitting 10 or 11 if they and their parents are happy with it.’

In a sense, anything is fine if parents are happy (and hopefully the child, themselves) but practices that parents were with happy 30 years ago aren’t the same as today.

I think the race between academic schools to maximise GCSEs is already being started to be seen as anachronistic; it doesn’t mean it may not suit some.

A lot of state schools do 11 or 12 GCSEs because it improves their performance in the league tables. Students only need to get above a 4 or a 7 for them to look good in the league tables. This isn't in the students' best interest at all. I think a reduction in GCSEs taken would be beneficial for students' wellbeing. In fact, I wish we were more like European countries, where students stayed to 18 covering a wider range of subjects. I hope the new government will reduce the burden on students at 16.

One thing is dc are so different. Some posts make me feel a bit stressed as a reduction wouldn’t be good for one dc (although hopefully through the system by then)

But for other dc that level of challenge would not be helpful

Exactly. My son gets to take PE, art, computer science and history as his optional GCSEs. All subjects that he loves and excels at. I would hate for him to miss out on this. I asked him the other day whether he was finding it hard. He said no, it was easy. That’s not a brag. He’s a very unassuming but academically gifted child. My other DC is not the same so goes to a different type of school.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

The first delay on the inevitable road to full row back. All this shameful episode will achieve, other than further division and polarisation, is an increase mumsnet advertising revenue.

A lot of state schools do 11 or 12 GCSEs because it improves their performance in the league tables

It wouldn’t necessarily improve their league table position though. The progress 8 figure shows performance across 8 subjects. Another measure is grade 5 or above in maths and English. Other league table figures show the percentage of grades at 7-9 for example. If anything, a school’s performance in a league table is likely to improve if students concentrate on fewer subjects.

The statistics show very few 16 year olds do 11 or 12+ GCSEs, 1.7% and 0.1% respectively.

Government plans to impose VAT on private schools from 1 January next year may have to be delayed because of warnings from unions, tax experts and school leaders that meeting the deadline will cause administrative chaos and teacher job losses, and put pressure on the state sector.

Blimey The Guardian is doing the hard yards for me atm, even if it is a year late

Come on Starmer it’s a dud, it’s fine to let it go

That’s interesting. Sounds like they’re backtracking already.

Yes that’s correct. It doesn’t mean it’s not right for some children though. The majority of state schools wouldn’t be able to offer that many because of teacher numbers/class sizes and timetabling constraints, which could explain why more don’t offer the option.

Yip....back track. Do it slowly so it isn't noticed

Buy some new glasses and a suit to divert

No one will notice VAT

I didn’t say it wasn’t right for some pupils. My post was in response to the poster who said “A lot of state schools do 11 or 12 GCSEs...” For some reason the post didn’t quote. Very few state schools offer 11 or 12+ GCSEs.

Phillipson has put an extremely unprofessional post on her Facebook page this evening. I suspect that she’s throwing her toys out of the pram after seeing the Guardian article.

I don't understand why she isn't taking the LEA to tribunal over not naming this school in her child's EHCP?
As others have said, the principle is that a suitable education should be provided free.

Maybe it is just the state schools near me that do a lot. Or maybe because the BTEC subjects they do don't count in the figures. Or maybe because the less able students do fewer by the time they reach Year 11. Near me they start on 11/12 GCSEs/BTECs in Year 10.

Ah ok. Yes that’s right.