VAT on school fees - High Court Challenge.

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Labour’s plan to impose VAT on private school fees in January faces a High Court legal challenge over claims it breaches human rights law.

Lawyers have written to HM Treasury arguing the policy discriminates against special needs children and has threatened court action if it is not dropped.

Showtime…

The vast majority of children in private schools do not have significant SEN. This is a red herring being used to object to the VAT proposal. Clutching at straws almost.
I have experience of two private schools and neither were great with SEN. The only benefit was smaller classes but teaching staff no better.

I agree. It's not looking great.

And if I use state education and just have lots of disposable income am I less privileged?

If I decide, as some friends do, not to work full time or do a less challenging career, am I less privileged?

And again, education is a negative human right, like the right to family life.

The government is not required to provide it, but they are forbidden from preventing it.

I actually work with children with SEN. Very few of them would get over the door of a prep school- mostly as the other parents wouldn’t agree as they don’t want their own children’s education disrupted and money talks!!

But if there are suitable providers within the state sector, then what's the issue exactly? I mean, I get that some parents of SEN children might prefer to send their kids to private schools for various reasons, as would some parents of non-SEN children, but I'm not seeing the human rights issue if private schooling is a want rather than a need?

I feel your pain, my DD is the same, her ND became evident very slowly and she also masked for years, eventually in year 8 she had a breakdown, she's only able to be taught at home now which costs the school thousands. We're lucky, only doing an EHCP now for college years.
The government need money to straighten out the state schooling system, it's not been invested in by the tories, they've destroyed it, as well as the NHS but that's a different thread.

This is why it's never wise to get excited by the stuff in the Torygraph or the Daily fail..

This mother of a 'SEN child' who only earns £1600 a month a a charity worker, decided to put her daughter into a £16500 per year private school with 7 children to a class in year 7. BEFORE she had even attempted to attend the allocated state school.

The daughter's EHCP application failed.
The mother states that the child was sad and anxious. Her parents (retired army vet and police officer - so gold plated pensions ) help cover the fees.

I suggest a different scenario here.
Mother wants her kid to attend private. Works herself into a state about it - which makes the child anxious and sad. (Inter-generational anxiety transference is a huge problem for child MH at the moment)
Grandparents step in and pay. Then guess what ? Child becomes immediately happy and content because mother has got her way ..

However , these fees went up 13% in September and with VAT looming - likely to say no more.

I'm sorry this case is purely parental choice . There has to be a definition of SEN needs from a funding point of view or we start to go down the ridiculous road of parents self diagnosing their kids.
This woman's child has not got an EHCP . Yet feels entitled to a private education on special terms (VAT exemption)

What is to stop every child's parent at her allocated state school saying 'I rather fancy my kids going into a class of 7 rather than 30 as they are anxious' ? and want to be treated as a special case based on my wishes.

This woman has made a 'luxury' choice for her child and that attracts VAT. My sympathy lies with the kids in the class of 30 without grandparents in such a generous position.

I voted Labour for this reason amongst many.

I also have two left in Private school but believe the broadest shoulders should carry the heaviest load.

SEN kids and families are privileged?

For the record, the most privileged are the ones who work out that their disabled child can get an EHCP if they apply the law and appeal to Tribunal, so they get the fees paid by the LA, so the VAT is neither here nor there as the LAs are already exempt. SEN parents who are paying for the private schools from their own pockets are already paying a tax on disability - you have no clue how many now in independent started at the local primary and were removed because they became dangerously mentally unwell from the stress of the numbers and the scale. Autism and state mainstream are quite frequently a toxic combination. We need smaller scale state schools that can cater to the 10% or so of the population that we now believe exists, but until and unless those are created, the private sector is picking up the slack - and saving the state the money those who stay in state mainstream, only to be destroyed by it and to need hugely expensive specialists by KS4, cost.

I think the government should provide an exemption for anyone who can prove their child has significant SEN, which makes a smaller, gentler school essential. Just as they are for the Local Authorities, when they pay for these schools using EHCPs.

The government could settle this case by agreeing to a VAT exemption if a parent can prove their child is entitled to DLA (the disabled child's benefit) at at least medium rate. Job done.

Agree with everything you have said.

You're privileged in that you could access private education if you wanted to.
Privilege comes in many forms and exists even if we don't access it's potential benefits.

Yep. There will just be time for the wealthy schools like Eton to reclaim vast amounts of input VAT they've paid on historic building projects.

And for some smaller schools to fold, permanently reducing educational provision in some areas.

Great.

Yes so let's tax according to income - if I use state I will pay no tax yet will be no less privileged!

'SEN kids and families are privileged'
@perfectstorm the ones who are able to access private education are privileged, yes. We can be privileged in one aspect and disadvantaged in another.

It's entirely irrelevant what any of us thinks regarding the rights or wrongs of this. It's also irrelevant what editorials or articles are posted in the right wing or left wing press.

It will be down to the determination of the judge on the merits of the case and whether this policy passes the legal test. It's as simple as that.

Will be watching with interest.

You are still privileged because you have more options open to you, even if you don't access those options.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of ehcps ...they rarely clear about anything! I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, but the ehcp process is a mess.

Most EHCP applications are rejected, and the success rate at Tribunal is presently 98.3%. Refusal means exactly nothing. I know a family whose little girl is being refused an EHCP assessment when the LA are funding her extra support to the tune of £8,788 a year. Her appeal is being heard in two weeks. They will then have to assess, and then they'll refuse to give one, so the mum will have to appeal that, too. She'll win (the threshold is a spend of £6,000, or an inability for the needs to be met in state mainstream...) but the LA will then issue a crappy useless chocolate teapot, so she'll need to appeal a third time to get one actually worth having. Refusals are now used as a way to stem spending, and have little relationship to the actual needs. One third of SEN parents now have to take legal action to secure something for their kids. And all too often, that takes a lawyer or advocate, and private assessment reports. It's not cheap, and you need to know that any of the above is even possible.

Most parents who know their autistic kids will not cope in mainstream secondary, because they were not coping with mainstream primary, avoid sending them to begin with because the trauma can be huge and that damage hard to unpick. PTSD from school trauma is common in the autistic population - ask CAMHS sometime.

The scandal in SEN provision is under the radar but it costs the state a horrendous amount. Every pound spent in SEN saves the tax payer 3, long term, because of the hit to benefits, healthcare, crime and lost tax take.

I have no issue with the VAT on private education for the most part. I have a problem with it where it stops being a want and becomes a need. A simple way to assess this would be: does this child get DLA at at least medium rate? If they do, then VAT should be waived.

The DLA alone will cover a good chunk of the fees? So problem solved.

Surely the discrimination is that local authorities do not provide education that meets the needs of some children with SEN. The VAT is just diverting from that issue.

That's what I'm saying - I have wealthier friends using state so why not tax them too??

This is a hopeless challenge. It requires crowdfunding because if it had any possibility at all of succeeding the private schools/associations would fund it. It doesn’t.

Because the parents who are choosing private could also use state schools!! They are choosing to opt out of the free provision.

Who are you to define ‘privilege’?

You are ‘privileged’, even if you pretend differently.