I never believed these places really existed until today...

[LittlePinkAlien]

My son has been allocated a place in one of our local secondary schools.

This school has a bad reputation. It was not on my list. But, because he has been given a place there (appeal in process), we were sent a letter inviting us to view the school.

So I viewed said school. Oh my god.

We walked around the building, about 5 families. "would you like some carpet to go with your chewing gum"? My feet stuck to the floor. The dining hall was so dirty I didn't want to touch anything. The whole place is falling to bits. The windows that aren't broken are covered in dried spit or have bars across them/roller shutters, or those curious sliding metal gate type things. The curious sliding gate things are scattered around the school over various doors and such. It looks like a prison.

Even the newer buildings around the school look like a factory unit. No windows and very "industrial" looking. The whole place stinks. Headteacher told us (amongst other things) that a lot of the children who attend the school have "difficult family circumstances" and they work with the parents to ensure that even if the children are late, thats ok so long as they attend at some time. WTF?

They have made many improvements apparently and all children leave the school with some kind of qualification. This is good as these children enter the school on a very low level.

They had some work displayed on the wall in one "department" from 15 year old children. 15 year old children who could barely write. My dyspraxic 10 year old could have done better and that is saying something.

The school cannot keep teachers, no-one will work there. The Ofsted reports are worse than grim.

I feel so gutted that they think my son will be attending that school. Over my dead body. I could hardly contain my distaste.

A real eye opener. I am stunned that places like this exist and can maybe understand how these kids grow up with no hope for the future. This, from me, who lives in a council house, single mum, two kids with different dads. It appears im a council snob but ill be damned if I let my son attend the shitty heap they call a high school. Is it so wrong that I want better for him? He attends a lovely primary school because its a good school.

If someone else had posted this I would be accusing them of being a troll and talking rubbish. How can a school be this bad? I just never realised.

sounds exactly like where I teach. WE do very well on value added.

But I suspect our results will make us in the firing line to be an academy or something drastic.

If it is any consolation as long as the child behaves bright students almost get one on one tuition in these schools as they stand out so much.

I don't want to come across as a kumquat eating-aspirational toiletries using-feng Shui doing nut job, but really if the building is that poor, is it any wonder that aspirations are low?

Kids walk in through the door and must feel like shite. And the staff. The world is telling them that they are not worth any more than this. So, funnily enough, they live up to the crappy expectations.

T& P and the standard of teaching in those teachers that can cope* is normally fantastic.

THere are sonme fantastic teachers there, I am proud that I have managed to teach and do well there for three years but it really takes its toll and is not somewhere to teach if you have a young family or you are not in 100% perfect health which I am not.

You are right about the building, I had some time off for ill health and then for interviews and came back to a trashed room. It was filthy ( I keep on top of the cleaning) and graffitti everywhere. I notices a real downturn in the behaviour in my room. I was supposed to go in over the holidays to paint it and give it a good scrub but will have to do it next week.

The damage done to our school is awful, at the moment a window is smashed or a wall damaged every day.

Quite MB.

I'm a trainee teacher and last term had a placement at a 'contrasting' school to my main one. One lunchtime a couple of Y11's were play-fighting and one said 'Miss, he's trying to kill me' to which my response was 'mind you don't get blood on the carpet' which elicited the sorry reply 'do you think anyone would notice if we did ?'

Sad but very, very true. Coded-number locks on staff toilets, holes in walls, doors hanging off hinges, a particularly delightful habit of squashing chocolate yoghurt up walls... The outside areas were a mudbath so everyone was always filthy and the corridors were grim.

However, a lot of the students were delightful, for the first time in a school I had doors opened for me, offers to carry my piles of books on a regular basis and none of the arrogance which I normally deal with.

You are quite right T & P the fall out on the staff in such schools is awful.

I'll be honest and state up front, I couldn't have done what you have done.

And all credit to you for doing it.

That is nice to hear MB I am getting a lot of stick at the moment as I have got another job in Dorset at a school which could not be more different. I am being accused of letting the kids down and selling out. I am not being replaced to save money so my GCSE classes will not have a teacher and so will find it very difficult to pass.

But Twink many of our kids our lovely once you look beyond the surface, I will miss them.

Yes, T&P many of the ones I taught were fab once I'd got to know them. I was nearly in tears at the end of the placement with some of the comments they made when they realised I was leaving.

I suspect one day I'll want to work in an environment like the one you're leaving but I've a lot to learn yet.

I think it can work both ways starting in a difficult placement.

If you cope it gives you a real confidence and you feel you can take on anywhere. I am certainly a better teacher for having worked somewhere tough as you have to plan realy good lessons and deliver them well, you need to be on top of your game or they will eat you alive. Although I worry that because the focus for new teachers is so much on discipline that developing a teaching style can be forgotten.

I started in a school where discipline was very good and that allowed me to really focus on developing my teaching style, I could experiment with different approaches and not worry about them rioting. I have always had an inner confidence that I can teach. I always worry that if I started in a tough school I may have given up.

I went to a school like this. I got the 2nd highest GCSE marks, 1 B, 5 C's, all the others got E's and F's. Personally, I would avoid places like this. They damage children, not just the bright ones, all of them (the ones that are not already damaged). I still have self confidence problems, I only managed to get into University because I left as soon as I realised that I could do this. The government were offering support to parents that wanted to set up their own school, you could move, you could appeal. Is this school in your catchment area? I would love to say that schools like this get better. I can't though. If it is this bad then the chances are it will be replaced by a PFI school in the near future.

I don't think that you can be expected to carry on working at the expense of your own health and the wellbeing of your own family T and P.

and anyone who says differently has never been put in between that particular rock and hard place.....

I really tip my hat to you

Thanks for all your replies. In fairness, the teachers we met seemed great but you can only do what you can do I suppose. The Ofsted report for the school does state that they've made improvements but noted that the behavour of the children there was pretty bad.

Home ed would not be an option. I'm a lone parent and working full time so no back up wage. (and I doubt im bright enough myself to teach anything useful ).

Moving not an option either as I live in a council property, I dont have enough points to move and couldn't afford to anyway.

The school is due to be closed in the next few years which will result in ds having to move schools anyway. Ironically, we were told we were refused my two choices on distance alone. My first choice school is of equal distance in the other direction and will end up being our closest school.

Ive spoken to ds's headteacher about some kind of supporting statement, what else can I do to help my appeal?

Get unquietdad on the case he was fab and so supportive last year when we were going through an appeal.

Search for threads by him or threads under my old name Smurfs - I detailed all the reasons we were appealing which might help

pinky the good thing is that youve got quite a lot of time to appeal and try other schools and nag and moan to anyone and everyone in authority- what are your sons feelings bout the school?

sounds like the seconday school i went to years ago. last i heard it had been bulldozed

I recently went for a job in the 'poorest' school in our town(failed OFSTEDs are common here) and the stories here make that look wonderful. The school could do with some tarting up,and there was a lot of 'this used to be Mr xs class and now he has left'from the kids but those who were there were happy and working together to get it better. Though it will be closing (along with 2 others )soon as we are getting an Academy .

Those poor children who grow up thinking that is the norm, agree with MB, they're hardly going to grow up thinking they have any worth when their school is so bad are they?

LittlePinkAlien, although the appearance of schools aren't everything all the other warning signs are there!

Where do the other children who attend your lovely primary go?

LPA - there is a website called elevenplus exams.co.uk - (ignore the 11+ bit) which has VERY useful section on appeals.
Very Best of Luck - please let us know how you get on.
failing that - is there any chance you could get a tranfer to be in the catchemtn for a better school? A HA I have aclose association with has people who are very helpful at advising on that.

Thanks again. Hard to explain this heated about the distance. The children who attend ds's lovely primary generally go to a school further in the opposite direction to us (my second choice school). Most of them live on the nice estate surrounding the primary school so its not too far for them. We were quite lucky to get him a place in that primary school in the beginning due to the distance but there are a few others who live near-ish to us. However, they are closer (not much) to my first choice school than I am, first choice school is of equal distance from our house to the school he's been placed in.

Therefore, not one child from his primary will attend this secondary, most will attend my second choice school, some will attend my first choice school.

Is that making any sense? probably not!

How do I find out about the catchment area?

I feel like im wallowing in mud here! You stick a pin in the map and we're right between the first choice school and the one he's been placed in.