What’s the comfortable household income for private school in London?

[gobbledoops]

Just that really. I have spoken to a few colleagues who are in the 200K household income range, which to my mind would have put them comfortably in the private school for two DC zone, but who are sending their kids to state schools because of financial concerns. So, private school parents, what do you earn to be comfortable sending two kids to private schools and paying for after school care, mortgage and all the bills?

Let’s not make this a VAT thread please.

This thread reminds me why we left London. We live 45 minutes out by train and easily afford two sets of school fees, a lovely house in a friendly desirable village (with a fantastic village primary school), a cleaner and lovely holidays on 300k household income. And we have leftovers to. save and invest both from that income and bonuses (which are exactly that- not to be relied upon!)

Hopping on the train for a 45 minute commute is no less convenient than coming into the City from West London where we could barely afford a shed behind a car dealership, let alone private school fees.

This.

unless your parents gave you a house / huge deposit and you are mortgage free 200k once we’ve been rinsed for ni and tax you aren’t going to be able to pay for 2 x private’s in London comfortably after you’ve paid your 2-3.5k pm mortgage and all the bills

Where did you move to, out of interest?

there is a real lack of awareness of reality here - people on £300 - £400k and saying that life is tough ?!

maths showing that on £200k after private schools there might 'only' be £3-4k left per month and that is not much (it is more than the average income earns before tax or any other costs!)

apparently on £200k you can do a mortgage or private schooling - wow...

our income is in this area so I am aware of the costs - I understand the expense of a large house / mortgage / fuel bills / council tax etc. but there is a lot of nonsense being talked about above...

it is about choice - sure if you need a new range rover on the drive and expensive holidays in the maldives / skiing / Rock / your own holiday home then you might have to choose carefully before committing to that new kitchen etc. but it is nonsense to say that you can't send children to private schools - and live on incomes of £200k+ of course you can - you might have to choose which school, even how many children you have - sending 4 darlings off to Eton at the same time will set you back a bit - but there are other schools... equally you might not buy yourself such a des. res. in the chi chi parts of London but a budget of £500k for a 3-4 bedroom house in London or within the suburbs brings up c. 14,000 result on Right Move - there are even 4 bed flats on Right Move for under £100,000 😄

I spent 19+ years as a governor of various families of schools including CofE / state / private / boarding / day / etc. - the vast majority of pupils in fee paying schools are not from parents with salaries being discussed here - even in London. Most parents are making compromises - they are driving 20 year old cars which maybe cost them a couple of grand - they are not going on holidays, or if they do it might be cheap camping in the UK, they are not buying flash TVs and expensive designer clothes, budgets are tight and calculated to the last penny - there are people working extra jobs to pay for their children's schooling - a lot of grandparents who contribute as well

So take most of the above posts with a pinch of salt - they are really not realistic - what they really mean is that to have:

• a nice house
• a cleaner
• nice holidays
• new cars every 2 - 3 years
• invest lots into pensions and savings
• and send the children to private school

costs a lot - yes it does, but most parents are really not in the category of even being able to consider all those things - so do not assume that all parents who can afford to send children to a private school are earning to that scale - most are not.

and if you want to send the sproglets to Eton - they are moving more to a needs-blind approach where what you can afford will not influence the decision, so you never know - it might be cheapest there - better only have boys though...

there are even 4 bed flats on Right Move for under £100,000
Hmm

I guess you mean this one on a 50 year lease.
Extending lease would cost £££

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/151661741

But maybe works out cheap as a rental for 10 years if you not expecting any return...

@Icanttakethisanymore We moved from Bethnal Green to North Essex. We have a fantastic quality of life and couldn’t be happier. It’s a brilliant place to raise kids. * *

London private day schools currently at least £26k per year, Westminster, St Paul's etc are more. So £52k per year fir two kids, to take that home after tax, NI and pension you've got to earn £100k, then you live on the rest. With 5-10% fee increases each year they more than double between reception and y13.

To answer the original q : in London, 2 dc, chunky mortgage, couple of holidays, one car: £350k gross . When we were on less than half that we had to get grandparents to help but now have got to where we can just about cover it. One of the calculations by the pp above showing the huge amount of tax and NI paid, plus mortgage and council tax outgoings nails it.

How are we getting the close to 10% educated in private schools numbers?!

Because loads of people got on the ladder before crazy prices.

People have family help

Some will prioritise fees above all else.

@akkakk they aren’t saying that life is tough - they are saying whether or not they can afford private school fees.

A household on £200k a year split £150/£50 is ~£8k a month after tax / pensions etc. So £96,000.

Two sets of school fees will be £40-60k depending on age.

£3k a month after the school fees may be better than most - but with the cost of a London mortgage etc, I can see why it might not be ‘comfortable’ to afford school fees no.

You give examples of a £500k property to save money - well, at current rates £500k borrowed is almost £3k a month.

If your income is £96k a year and your expenses are £96k on just school fees and a mortgage for £500k… it’s probably not going to feel comfortable no.

And - that was the question. How much to feel comfortable paying them.

In answer to the initial question: we are at £350-400k with more in investments and savings, with a very small mortgage. It feels comfortable for us on these numbers.

@MidnightPatrol
you make good points - but it is rarely that simple...
let's take an example: Haberdashers Aske's - North London - top fees 2 children = £50k p/a
so now you have £46k p/a cash after that

you are likely to be in the 30 - 39 or 40-49 age bracket
av. UK salary for that age group is either £37,544 or £40,040 Gross

so the money left over is higher nett than the average salary for the age group gross and people feel that it is uncomfortable to live on?

most people of that age will not be getting a £500k mortgage on a £500k house - they are likely to be already in the property market with equity of probably at least £50 - £150k and if they rode some of the upswings may well have £200-£250k equity - so could be looking to spend £1-2k max on mortgage leaving them c. £2-3k nett after house and private schooling...

our average salary family in their age range will have a nett take home pay after basic taxes of £2.5 - £2.7k

so after paying out for private education
and paying out for a mortgage
our £200k family will still have about the same money as the average wage earner before they have even spent money on a mortgage etc.

I appreciate that life is expensive - but there are a lot of families surviving on £2-3k a month including paying rent / mortgage etc.

The reality is still that £200k is comfortable to put children through private education if you choose that as your priority - of course it is not if that priority also includes fancy cars and holidays etc.

also - over 1/3 of private school children receive fee assistance (in total over £1billion p/a)

I get that people feel pinched in comparison to the previous generation - schooling has become more expensive relatively - but, sorry it is still possible to send two children to private school, live in London and not have to worry about every penny...

+1

I promise you mortgage of £1-2k in a zone 3 is very unlikely. Rent in zone 3 near good state school is around 2.5-3.5£, mortgage I'd say at least 2-3k. Zone 4 onwards may be cheaper.

You're also missing after school and holidays, need to add at least 8-12k per year on covering that. Holidays are nearly 3-4 months per year in private and 2-3 months in state. After school around 30£ per day.

London prices are very unreasonable, I think nobody here is saying life is tough. Yes definitely choices of whether to be in London or not, but once you decide London and want 3 bed or more, and 2 or more kids, you need quite

Yeah - but that’s usually only for three years and £10k a year is approx. Half of stated fees.

Sorry didn't finish my comment.
...you need quite a bit more than 200k in London zone 3 or more central, and certainly shouldn't be compared to average incomes. I think holidays in Maldives and nice cars are not the aspirations of most here but I may be wrong, but definitely most parents I know who sent their kids to private school here don't even drive (mostly cycle to school and work), and have European holidays, maybe twice a year.

@akkakk

”let's take an example: Haberdashers Aske's - North London - top fees 2 children = £50k p/a
so now you have £46k p/a cash after that

you are likely to be in the 30 - 39 or 40-49 age bracket
av. UK salary for that age group is either £37,544 or £40,040 Gross

so the money left over is higher nett than the average salary for the age group gross and people feel that it is uncomfortable to live on?“

…

2x £37k salaries with basic pension etc is £60,000 a year after tax not including child benefit or any UC.

So a household with two average earners would have more money each month than the £200k household, once school fees for two children are paid - to the tune of £1,200 a month or so.

Which takes me back to the point of it not being comfortable no.

@akkakk

”most people of that age will not be getting a £500k mortgage on a £500k house - they are likely to be already in the property market with equity of probably at least £50 - £150k and if they rode some of the upswings may well have £200-£250k equity - so could be looking to spend £1-2k max on mortgage leaving them c. £2-3k nett after house and private schooling”

A family in London may have bought a house 15-20 years ago. They’ll be in a better position than most to afford fees.

But - the average age of buying a house in London is your late 30s. Younger people haven’t accumulated vast amounts of housing equity. People I know universally have massive mortgages to afford… well, anything really.

A £1,000pcm mortgage at 5% is £170k. How far does this go in the London property market
for a family home? Even double that is ‘one bedroom flat’ territory.

I think what the posts here show are that in London people with this level of income are broadly choosing state education because they do not feel ‘comfortable’ or straight up cannot afford to privately educate their children.

Sure we can compare like that but even so having potentially several thousands spare every month is hardly breadline is it considering the poverty so many face!

The thread isn’t about being on the breadline or living in poverty, it’s about the specific scenario of paying for school fees in London.

The ‘potentially several thousand a month to spare’, using your example of £46k a year after school fees are paid, is £3,800 a month to cover all costs - housing, council tax, travel, food etc. That is not a massive sum to try and house and raise a family in London.

£46k a year with two full time workers is the London living wage after tax + benefits.

I assume you don’t think a household with two workers on the living wage has ‘thousands to spare’ each month.

The issue is the cost of school fees, not that £200k is a small household income which means you are ‘living on the breadline’

I think there is little point in continuing the discussion ;)

there are a lot of children at private schools with parents with a combined salary of well under £200k so yes I do think it is possible to be comfortable on that, but clearly there are other definitions of being comfortable ;)

Yes indeed, but that would require at least one or combination of:

1. low mortgage cost of under 2k
2. grandparents help, often asset rich grandparents opt to help in education costs
3. grandparents around to help with childcare costs
4. either or both parent is a teacher at private school with substantial subsidy
5. highly gifted low income with bursaries
6. only one child and one and done

This should hopefully explain the gaps.

In my ignorance I don't know many people, the only group I know are few 4s.

💯
👏👏👏👏👏

That flat only has 2 years left on the lease. So it's effectively a 2 year fixed rate rental at £4k per month.