Scrap school catchments now

[Momentumummy]

If Labour wants to eventually end parents buying privilege through private schools, it needs to go after school catchments. How can it be fair to decide schools by distance to gates when it often depends on ability to pay rent or mortgage which will usually be higher in catchment for good schools?

The only fair system is a lottery one by borough (at least for secondary when kids are old enough to travel alone). You should be allocated a place within your borough but it should be randomized and not based on distance to gates.

The problem isn't the school it's the kids in that school. It would actually be better for able poor kids to have a selective system, then they could be sent to the high achieving school aswell.

Well, that's what she said. Government should fund those bus journeys 😂 😂 But how? Oh, just take money from the higher earners for that, how dare they earn more? We need a fair society!

There is virtually no public transport round here and the traffic is practically bursting at the seems so good luck with that.

I’m Scottish so most kids go to catchment schools. It’s then the schools responsibility to ensure they have spaces/teachers/ Classrooms for all the dc in catchment. It’s much more sensible or maybe lower population makes it more feasible. There is no angst about applications and choices or spaces. We’re rural so the council put on school buses, kids on at 8:15 and home for 4pm.

@sleepyscientist Your idea is half right. But it still doesn’t make it fair that the richer you are, the more able you are to buy your way into a great school catchment.

Noone needs faith criteria, should be naff all to do with education.

DC still at primary. Secondary options are a mixed back near me. But I honestly think they will be fine. Pastoral care is more important for me and they are as likely to get bullied at a posh school as at a rougher school. If that happened of course I would look at moving them. But as for results and social mix, I would be willing to mix it up for the greater good. Ultimately, it will benefit my children and yours in the long run if we have more equal schools.

We don’t have catchment areas in NI, you can apply to any school you like, no matter how near or far it is.

The easiest and cheapest and quickest way of ensuring equality is by shaking up the catchment areas.

I suspect people fear this as they want to protect their privilege by property price.

Am I the only socialist left on mumsnet?

@Momentumummy do you think it's fair that richer people can afford to go private for health? Of course it's not "fair" when looking at society with a moral lens like that, all lives should be equal, but unless you're talking about completely upending the capitalist system your fudge won't make a blind bit of difference. Wealth inequality and the impact that has on poorer people is much more deep rooted and wide reaching than middle class people being able to buy a house closer to a good/outstanding school.

how would it help those parents of poor kids to make the kids travel further?

All the people I know at private school still live in expensive houses near state schools…

are you against high house prices in general or just ones near schools? Certainly in London the more desirable areas have higher house prices & it’s not necessarily related to schools.

My kids are in school to learn, not as sacrificial lambs for ‘the greater good’

There are certainly flaws with a capitalist economy but what alternatives do you suggest @Momentumummy?

The easiest and cheapest and quickest way of ensuring equality is by shaking up the catchment areas.

Considering birth rates are so low I don’t think it will have much impact on inequality.

@Momentumummy I empathise with your viewpoint, and commend the objective, but don't interpret people disagreeing with your approach as disagreeing with your opinion (not everyone at least). You are being really close minded and not considering life outside of your small urban bubble. It has been explained why your approach would have drawbacks. I've literally told you that's how it works where I am, and all it does is disadvantage other groups of people (and still poor people).

It's not socialism to create a system where some people actually, physically can not get their child to school. It is also not socialism to design a system that costs poor parents more to get their children to school.

We need to cap house prices and invest in education.

@MillyMollyMandHey Does that mean you don’t agree with ending the tax breaks for private schools?

Personally no, but mainly as it will make squat all difference. Nothing will improve. You can’t erase inequality in life.

How about giving pupil premium kids first dibs on school places then? That way if their families can’t or won’t get them to a school further away, they can choose the closest schools. The rest of us could almost certainly cope with a school still within reasonable distance but not necessarily one we have bought our way into.

I agree with scrapping grammars, but of course it should be distance to gates.

A lot of good schools are considered good due to attainment. Attainment is higher in good areas because most of the parents will be decent parents with good jobs. Other than children with ASN, if you scrap the grammar school system most of the children with decent hardworking parents in poor areas will still have good attainment.

Private schools have entrenched the divisions in our society @MillyMollyMandHey but selection by house price is more devious and widespread. Both need to end.

My kids are in their last year of school - so changing catchment area won’t affect them. I am still allowed to think it’s a stupid idea because you need a system for working out school entry and closest to school makes sense to me.
You may be a socialist but we don’t live in a socialist country.

I moved away from England cause I just couldn't be arsed dealing with the school system.

Where I used to live both the local primary and secondary schools were awful, with little hope for DD getting a school place elsewhere.

We moved back to my home town in the Netherlands, toured several primaries and selected the one that suits DD best without having to worry about living exactly in the right street. In fact we moved between the application and her actually starting school. We now live slightly further out but we had no worries about losing her place.

When she goes to secondary school she can choose between any of the six secondaries in my town and get into any of them. Same as her peers from rural villages around here. I was one of those rural children, I still got to go to the best secondary for me.

I know Amsterdam has a lottery system, so any child, no matter where they live in the city, can get into one of the more popular schools.

They won’t though, despite as many posts on MN hoping they will.