Allowing son to do apprenticeship over A-levels?

[Bornonablueday]

Hello,

My son wants to do an apprenticeship at 16 and I want him to do a-levels. There doesn't seem to be any high level apprenticeships for 16 year olds, with entrance requirements being low at 4/5s. He will most likely end up with 8/9s in all STEM like subjects, so I think he should continue to A-level and then do an an advanced apprenticeship at 18. Do I allow him to do the low level apprenticeships at 16? Or some how make him do A-levels.

i think you really need to look harder at apprenticeships…
I’ve had L3 IT apprentices go on to do L6 IT apprenticeships…
as they are older, most unis have a discussion with the learner and line manager to check that - a- the learner is competent- is able to do them, b- the role is right for that apprenticeship.
my company offers L3 apprenticeships in electrical engineering(4 year course) we normally pay for them to do a HNC on top after the first two years If we feel they are capable…. Some go onto degree apprenticeships after that.

I take it youve looked at the “not going to uni”, UCAS & gov websites?

@Anonym00se I was looking into him doing level 6 after completing level 3. As I thought level 3 was equivalent of A levels.

That mindset might not be compatible with electrical engineering... it's not my field but I'd have thought that quite a lot of it involves being compliant with defined standards etc.

@LifeIsGreatForUnicorns thanks for the feedback, look at UCAS and contacted companies like JLR and rolls royce. (Both might be too far to travel) Also finding some near us is a challenge. Not much opportunity near by. Live in Kidderminster. Would you be willing to share your company?

I wouldnt "make him" do anything and practically speaking I dont see how you can. I think you'll regret it if you try to force him.
Its his life. Have him seek advice from careers advisors etc and then let him make his choice. If it turns out a level 3 apprenticeship isnt enough for his future options he can study at a higher level later on.
My ds did 4 A levels, went to Uni and now hes in his early 20s and is in a very menial job and absolutely loves it.

Being stuck in classrooms with uniform codes when he doesn't want to be for another two years is probably the last place he should be, then.

@stopscrollingandgettowork yeah I am worried about that. Wants to be free to build and create what he wants. I have tried to explain need to have a lot experience before you can have that freedom of thought. He just likes design, code and build his ideas atm. Using fusion 360, 3d printer and microcontrollers. I blame Mark Rober.lol not many jobs you can do with that freedom.

Entrance requirements are a minimum. In reality, competition is fierce. If he's likely to get good results, then he should use them to get the training and job he wants by whatever pathway is required. If that's an apprenticeship, great. Alternatively he could do A levels to keep his options open (and mature a bit, 16 is very young) then apply for an apprenticeship. He'll have a skilled job at the end of it rather than a potentially a huge debt from uni and massive competition for jobs at the end of his studies.

My son did do A levels, but then did a level 3 apprenticeship - so again, A level equivalent. But he had to do this as the company needed him to have an engineering qualification rather than A levels.(Although the A level qualifications didn't hurt)

He then went onto the degree apprenticeship, currently doing Civil Engineering, this is where the A levels were helpful as he did maths and physics, so he only had to remember this information rather than be taught it, the students who didn't do A levels first did struggle and several dropped out.

So, no he doesn't need it, but he'll probably be a better candidate with A levels.

He also has way more experience than the grads that come through, he's on a decent wage (£27K in the midlands) and will jump up above the entry grad wages once he's graduated.

The thing is A levels are really hard work. It takes a little of commitment (which I'm sure you know). Would he have enough maturity to do them?

My son wanted to leave at 16 to do an apprenticeship.
I managed to bribe him to stay on for A levels by giving him the child benefit that I was receiving for him, essentially paying him to stay at school (luckily I could afford to do that, I know it's not possible for everyone).
I'm glad I did it, although he still maintains that he'd have been fine without A levels.
I think having A levels will help him when he starts looking for a new job in the future.

Definitely guide him to do A levels first then apprenticeship, even the level 3 as Industry experience is worth just as much as the qualification. In engineering they have specific qualifications. He can always do a degree later.

How are you going to force a 16/17 YO to do something HE doesn’t want to do & won’t be motivated to do?

”So I think he should continue….”

”Do I allow him….”

“How do I make him…”

This all sounds very controlling behaviour.

You need to cut the umbilical cord & let him make his own decisions (and mistakes). (IMO).

@TravelInsuranceQ how bizarre. By doing an apprenticeship your son could have been earning about £600 or so a month but you bribed him with child benefit - less than £100 a month.
Your son was had. By you.

Maybe look at this another way - what's the worst that could happen if he does an apprenticeship?

He'll either decide by the end of the first year that it's not for him, in which case he can go back to school/college and do A Levels.

Or he'll finish his apprenticeship and then progress onto another apprenticeship or he can go to university (may need a foundation year).
Neither of these sound like terribly bad options tbh. They take a bit longer, sure. But taking A Levels and finding out that wasn't right for him would also take a bit longer.

Have you/he looked at BTECS? They might suit him better.

Have you looked at T levels instead of A levels?

Kidderminster College has an engineering T level www.kidderminster.ac.uk/about/t-levels#:~:text=Each%20T%2DLevel%20is%20a,action%20and%20gaining%20real%20experience.

I achieved excellent A level results whereas my brothers went straight into apprenticeships. I chose an academic route in an area which realistically means waiting for somebody to die to earn a decent wage.

My brothers were both earning 50k + at 25. One now earns over a 100k and has seen the world.

I will be encouraging my daughters to look seriously into non A level options.

We have no offices near you and our vacancies have been full for ages…
we advertise them from January for that year and hope to have finished recruitment by April…
a lot of big companies (BAE, Siemens, Rolls Royce) are similar.

Maybe a L2 foundation course at College may suit him well? Most colleges offer this and this would give him some extra ‘credit’ for next years application?
(Don’t think only L2 - he needs to understand and be able to complete the basics like using hand tools etc ) again this is something we add into our apprenticeships…

Bizarre? To encourage him to get more qualifications to do a higher level of apprenticeship which meant he now earns much more than he would have done by now if he'd left at 16?
Yeah sure......

@TravelInsuranceQ I apologise. I assumed A-levels meant he went down the university path (it usually does).
Could have done the higher apprenticeship though by doing a lower level apprenticeship instead of A-levels?
The 16+ Apprenticeships are usually a Level 3 qualification the same as A-levels so the same goal can be reached whichever route you choose.

@Needmorelego unfortunately level 3 apprenticeship isn't seen the same as A-levels, as companies don't except it to move onto level 6/degree apprenticeship.

I feel the best option is A-levels followed by degree apprenticeship. (Where the company pays your university fees)

@Bornonablueday all valid points but does your son want to do the job that the Level 3 Apprenticeship leads to or the one that that the Level 6 ones leads to?
That's the important bit?

He would have a much better chance of getting on a Level 6 with a Level 3/4 App than with A Levels and no industry experience. Competition is fierce, and experience matters. I owned and ran an Apprenticeship provider until I retired. I know this industry.

Just on a relevant note, DS started an engineering apprenticeship years ago. He hated it. He left quickly and got on an accountancy app instead. Both he and DD did their apps starting at Level 3 and then progressed through the levels. DD has just finished her Level 7. DS is still on a Level 6.

I don't know the career path for electrical engineering but will just say that A levels and university aren't for everyone. DS was lucky to get a carpentry apprenticeship at 16 and to be mentored by a general builder. He's not good academically. He loves building, works really hard, has learnt loads of other skills and earns a bomb. University is not necessarily right for everyone.

No, companies expect Level 3 apprentices to move onto Level 4 apprenticeships and then (ultimately, if they prove themselves) to Level 6 apprenticeship. No company is going to want their Level 3 apprentices to have zero progression (or, if they do, avoid them like the plague).

It is still quite hard to get from A Levels onto a degree apprenticeship. And companies will look for work experience as well as qualifications. If you want to get onto a prestigious big name company degree apprenticeship, they are pretty fussy. But that's not the only route.