Bursaries

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Merely as a footnote to the comprehensively-debated VAT on school fees, we donate several thousand per year to our children’s private school, in order to provide bursaries for less-fortunate children.

We have just cancelled these donations and are aware of other parents doing similarly. It’s genuinely sad for the kids who will lose out, but the Government need to realise there are consequences to their actions.

Just a comment - I have no plans to enter into another debate.

For selective schools children still have to pass the tests, bursary or not. And schools tend to offer to brighter children.

I don't believe it will help state schools. Government after government after government proved to be horrendously inefficient. Why would we expect anything different this time? This VAT will be wasted as everything else before.

I’m agree with you. The elite will become smaller and more removed from ‘the masses’. The state system will become two tier with better schools colonised by displaced middle classes. The net result will be less access to good schools for the less well off.

If you are so keen to help other children, why not give the money to your local state school, or a local youth club?

Are you suggesting that state schools are horrendously inefficient?

Sorry, am I right in reading that you still have the money, it's not being spent on the VAT, and you're simply choosing to reallocate to an animal charity? What a spiteful thing to do.

How does VAT on school fees level the playing field and raise standards?

The money they think they will raise is being spent on 6,500 teachers which is less than 1 teacher for every 5 schools.

In terms of levelling the playing field it will actually do the opposite. It will mean families who decide not to go down the private school route will instead be able to invest in 'State Plus' where you either buy a house in a nice catchment, and/or your child can now have lots of extra curricular, tutors, trips etc instead at a fraction of the price.

And those who could effortlessly afford the fees in the first place will continue to send their children to the ever more elite independents.

The teachers aren’t all going to be spread out like I’m sure. We are in desperate need of more teachers and anything that helps that is appreciated by most people. You’re right it definitely won’t level the playing field but it’s a start. It will take years and years and many other changes (that no doubt people will be unhappy about) to do that.

So what does happen with 6,500 teachers and which schools will they be in? Given most schools can't recruit at the moment I am very intrigued as to where these ones are coming from...

FWIW DD is fully state educated. I just think this is very poor policy making that will do more harm than they have realised.

I think we will have to wait and see what happens. It could be a complete disaster and they may struggle to recruit teachers as they have for years. However, something needs to be tried and in principle I think it’s fair enough as these schools are not charities and places are available in state schools for those that may need to move.

My biggest issue is that parents of fee paying schools aren’t taking on the schools regarding this.. as the schools do not have to pass the costs on - fees have been increasing for years largely unquestioned by parents or governments.. where is all that money going as it’s not being spent on teacher or support staff salaries in fee paying schools? Maybe parents of private school children should be questioning that?

I don't think this is necessarily true for all. Our local independent only gives £250 a year to academic/sports scholarships. Bursaries are means tested and range from 25 to 100% if the annual fees.

A lot of these schools ARE charities. This policy is nothing to do with charitable status.

How do you move a child about to go into Y11?
What school is going to even want to take on kids who are going into exam year with different exam boards, possibly different subjects that aren't even offered?

And many places don't have spare capacity in secondary years which were all huge birth years.

I think it’s been well established that while they may officially be charities and have charitable status, they do lip service to this… very little of any charitable work. Personally I think the government should have taken away their charitable status but as you say that’s a separate issue.

In reality this really isn’t going to impact many people, everyone has known this is coming and have planned accordingly. I doubt that there will be loads of year 11 children suddenly kicked out of school as a consequence in September. I wait to see what happens but I don’t this will be an issue.

Fees have increased by over 50% since 2003 according to some reports I’ve seen., yet the number of private school students has remained fairly consistent. As I said parents should be taking on the schools and asking them to absorb the increase.

You could donate the 6k to your local state school …. To improve educational opportunities for those in state schools. Our school PTFA funds so many extra’s for the children in the school.

I said "governments", not "schools" as you can clearly see above.
I don't know every single school, but I've seen quite a few governments - and the results of their work.

So these horrendously inefficient governments run schools efficiently, much more efficiently than private businesses, who need 3-4 times as much money per pupil to run schools.

That makes sense.

Ok so because you’re angry at the government you would rather give money to animal charities rather than children. Each to their own…. State schools would appreciate the support of you REALLY wanted to try create opportunities for children

Schools are run by headteachers. That's why I have been donating to a local state school directly - I trust the head knows what their school needs.

Sorry can't further engage in pointless wind up.

Um, thanks for typing it out to let us all know.

Our sons' private school - which was aiming to have one third of all children on means tested bursaries, mainly funded by their own business interests (there are separate endowed places from donors) has told us that they will have to rethink their target.

Also a few parents have withdrawn their children. This VAT seems to affect the aspirational rather than the rich.

People like ourselves who will always be able to absorb the cost won't suffer too much. We are happy to pay towards state education through the many taxes we pay. I chair at a state school and I've seen bursaries go to bright aspiring children whose social mobility will benefit their whole family.

This will widen the gap between rich and the lower middle class/poor. It won't raise the standard for state schools.

I'll still pay it though. I sit on secondary boards as well and understand that under their circumstances they can't provide the level of education that I want for all children.

Thank you for letting us know OP.
It won’t make much difference to many people - you were probably only helping 1 child and even then they could have got a decent education in a state school instead.
Think of all the people you could have helped if you had donated to people actually in need - food banks, Water Aid, Mercy Ships etc etc.
I know lots of Christians tithe, could you take that approach instead? You then only give depending on your income. If your income is nil then you could give your time instead.

To donate the money to state school - as some would prefer I do, would mean I end up subsidising government - why the hell would I do that when I fundamentally disagree with their pricing out bursaries?

Happy to donate to the NSPCC.

Your VAT is already doing that anyway. I have seen a few posts from high earners using state lambasting private, not sure why their donation to the sector they use isn’t a goer

🤔

I wonder if the Heads of more than a few precariously financed independent schools are secretly breathing a sigh of relief? At least they won’t have to deal with quite so many passive aggressive and judgemental parent donators who use their donations as a reactive tool …

Incorrect.

I can tell you from personal experience that at least some independent schools are cutting bursaries. Almost 30% receive some form of bursary worth almost 1bn.

Its inevitable.

Lets study the consequences of this VAT raid in say 12 months time shall we?