My son is thinking of ditching A-Levels for an apprenticeship

[Justwingingitsince2007]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

My DS is in Y12. After doing ok in his GCSEs (not as well as predicted, but still good enough, predicted 7s, got mostly 6s and an 8 in Maths) he embarked on A-Levels (Maths, Physics, Chemistry). He has coasted all year, and has pretty much bombed his mocks, getting E’s across the board. His plan was always A-Levels, then Mechanical Engineering at uni.

He has resits in August to get into Y13, and to be fair has been revising throughout the hols so far.

However, he did his work experience at a large well known car manufacturer and off the back of that they have offered him an apprenticeship. They only offer 2 every 3 years. It’s a level 3 light vehicle maintenance qualification. It’s 3 years long. They have block release to their own specialist college. He will earn a wage.

He is volunteering there through the holidays and they have talked to him again about this apprenticeship. They have said he can have it now, or they will wait for him to finish his A-Levels and keep it open for him.

He wants to ditch his A-Levels and do the apprenticeship now instead. He couldn’t get into uni on this apprenticeship because it’s only worth 48 UCAS points. He says he doesn’t want to go to uni anyway now.

I think he should finish his A-Levels and then do the apprenticeship, so he has that back up, and he thinks he should just go for it now.

Will not having A-Levels hinder him in the future? I really don’t know what’s best. I know it’s ultimately his decision, but he wants my opinion and I want to give him the best advice.

In this situation (engineering, E grade mocks, etc costing relationship with the employer) I would think the apprenticeship is an excellent route for him.

I think the almost entirely unanimous responses to OP's posts should be taken on board.

A level 3 apprenticeship is an excellent qualification equivalent to a levels. He had this all lined up with the accompanying job to boot.

I work for a small engineering business in the UK that's part of a worldwide group of 200 entities with 10,000 staff. What can I say except that good former apprentices in all aspects of engineering are highly regarded and in short supply. Across the group there are many MDs that started as apprentices.

Honestly OP, a great apprenticeship is better than mediocre a-levels any day of the week. Encourage your son take this opportunity and ditch the A levels... please!!

They will still need fixing, yes, but fixing an ev is a very different skill set to fixing an ICE. It's a bit like a plumber vs a sparky. BEVs also don't need servicing (or need minimal servicing) so that removes a large fraction of the available work.

Mechanics are very skilled in internal combustion engines. BEVs don't have those. ICE cars and BEVs have surprisingly little in common in manufacturing and maintenance. There's little point in training in ICEs if you are going to work on BEVs, as they are so different.

In this day and age, I wouldn't specialise in ICEs. There's going to be a relative oversupply of people with those skills. There is going to a be huge demand for people with EV skills.

The apprenticeship 100%. There are always options after and he will have his level 3.

There are degree apprenticeships and if he changed his mine and wanted to do u I there are foundation years and access courses for trad uni or open university alongside study.

He can get stuck into real work now and learn alongside what he is doing. These type of apprenticeships are so competitive and hard to get I'd take it right now and not bother with the resits. I think doing so tells your son you're proud he's got this and that he doesn't need to bust a gut trying to get from an E to a B (hideously hard) but why not have 2 weeks off then start. After all from now on this is work - enjoy a few weeks actual holiday and celebrate him and what he's achieved getting this rather than giving him the impression it's second best.

He will have a more interesting career if he follows his heart. Take the apprenticeship.

Additionally, make sure he starts a pension up straight away and saves 10% of his wages right from the outset.

Says someone that has never worked on a vehicle. They all still have suspension, brakes, steering, tyres and due to the heavy weight of them they go through more than a traditional vehicle.

The increase of EV sales recently is directly linked to the tax benefits of buying a EV, the sales in the second hand market are still poor.

EVs have environmental issues (dredging the sea bed for one) and there is a lot of work ongoing using clean fuels that can be used in ICE engines (so much money to be made for the company that invents it)

Future proofing is almost impossible in any industry, but learning a skill such a mechanics will have plenty of transferrable skills. EV is also taught in the third year and further training is available. He would be mad to not take it up

I'm not saying that BEVs don't have issues. However, emerging tech follows very predictable patterns as it transitions to dominance, and BEVs are following that in a very typical pattern.

Yes, BEVs have suspension and brakes. However, it's untrue that the brakes wear faster - EVs use regenerative braking, and so don't use the pads much. Hence, the brakes last longer in a EV.

Tyres wear a little faster, but specialist tyre places have that covered.

Yeah, a focus on EVs would be smart, but as they very rarely require servicing, there's just going to be less labour demand.

Going into passenger vehicle mechanics now is like going into journalism in the 90s /00s. Yeah, there's still journalists around. However, there were many, many jobs shed over the following decade, it was cut throat for those who remained, and many, many people had to start over in new areas.a

We will have to agree to disagree.

I think the link between maintaining vehicles and big potential earnings is a bit of a stretch! The people who design the vehicles will always have a higher wage. However it would seem that role is out of reach, so take the apprenticeship but there will be lot of talented MEng grads who will earn more. This can be a start but he would need to study further to earn better money in the end.

To be fair @LameBorzoi and @EssentialGarage I think you may both be missing that this apprenticeship is in Vehicle Manufacture not Vehicle repair. My DS is just finishing the 1st year of an apprenticeship with a major Vehicle manufacturer and whilst they do make some ICE vehicles the fast majority are electric and he is receiving training in the manufacture and repair of both. But with much more emphasis on electric and hybrid and all sorts of new technology. I doubt OPs DSs apprenticeship would only focus on ICE vehicles.

I know someone who took this route btech in engineering at 6th form college because he was flunking a levels but had a real gift with engineering. Then an apprenticeship with a luxury car company. He's just completed that and is earning £38k at 22.

I would wonder why they are recruiting outside a normal window though. It’s fairly unusual to do this as others cannot apply. Most of these apprenticeships are sought after and have closing dates for applicants. Certainly JLR do and they have 10 weeks at their training centres.

DD is studying the same A-levels. Firstly, I'm surprised he was encouraged to do those subjects with his grades. Her 6th form told us not to consider them without 8s.
She's predicted As or above next Summer and even with that is concerned about uni offers. If she was getting Es with the offer of anapprenticeship in an area of interest, I'd tell her to grab it.
DS did similar. He had no student debt, has a great career and bought his first home at 23. DD expects to still be in college at that age.

@Littletreefrog The OP said Light Vehicle Maintenance. Thats not manufacture.

I know MN is obsessed with six figure salaries but that isn't the reality for most of the population.

Mechanics are earning above the national average without the debt of university.

@Littletreefrog he is still doing a level 3 light vehicle maintenance which is a mechanic qualification. Of course they will learn EVs as well but that doesn't mean what he is learning about ICE isn't useful.

I know the qualification is light vehicle maintenance but if he works in a vehicle manufacture environment this will be in the context of vehicle manufacture not like someone working in your local garage so all the training will be geared to the cars they are building i.e EV.

My sons apprenticeship is technically vehicle repair not vehicle manufacture but as he works in the plant that makes the cars he only ever works on brand new cars so all the skills are completely up to date with modern technology.

I’ve already explained in a previous post they had 2 apprentices and 6 months ago one dropped out.

They weren’t looking at recruiting for this specific role, there is no live vacancy, however DS has impressed them so much they have offered it to him and said he can start now or equally wait until he finishes his A-Levels.

It’s a company equal to JLR. They have purpose built training facilities. First year they do 6 blocks of training (some 2 weeks, some one week) and the training facility. The next year they do 8 blocks of training and the final year they do 10 blocks of training.

This was in reply to @MitskiMoo

I find this very surprising to be honest.. My DD goes to a grammar and for their 6th form they only need 6s to get onto those A-Levels, and a 7 in Maths. Given that’s a selective school, even they don’t require 8s in all subjects.

DS got 6 in Physics, 6 in Chem, and an 8 in Maths. Physics was remarked and was upped to a 7.

His targets are Bs. Throughout the year he wasn’t putting in much effort and was enjoying going out and new found freedom a bit too much. Initially he was doing fine in assessments (mainly due to being able to draw on GCSE knowledge initially), and started slipping as the year progressed and he wasn’t putting the effort in.

I have spoken to his teachers as they were shocked at his end of year results. They don’t really know why he did so badly, so it will be interesting to see what he gets on resits (if he goes that way). Although they did say often the children who do well in GCSEs without putting the effort in (definitely the case with my DS) come unstuck in 6th form as no one can get away with coasting, especially in those subjects. They don’t actually seem too concerned and have said it’s better for him to have a shock at Y12 and realise he needs to up his game, then it to happen in Y13.

Incidentally, the end of years are internal examinations, and over 50% of the cohort are resitting the exams in those subjects. They have to resit if they are 2 grades away from their target grades.

DS has also completed a wider access participation scheme for our local university, which if passed (and indications are he has passed it) gets him a 2 grade drop for our local uni so if he did get his target grades then he would have the grades needed.

Dd started a 3 year mechanics apprenticeship straight from GCSEs.
She's earning more than she could ever imagine and now a year in( she's 17) has just passed her driving test, owns her own tools and is loving it. She has to travel 3hrs away to a specialist college in Coventry for a week every couple of months. She's loving the independence.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all been easy. She works a 40 hr week which came as a bit of a shock at 16. She is the youngest by 2 years- there's another apprentice- it's an adult world. The transition from school to working was definitely a culture shock.
The mechanics she works with are on 35k plus a year, she's definitely staying in the industry.

Feel free to ask any questions. Dd happy to answer.

He should definitely do the apprenticeship. I work for a FTSE 100 engineering firm and we take apprentices at 16 and up, as well as graduates. Their career paths can merge along the route, it makes no difference. We also offer degree apprenticeships or take non-apprentices at any point if they show good mechanical engineering skills. I really would let your son take the apprenticeship now before they change their mind (company circumstances can change just like personal circumstances). He’ll be fine. Half hearted A level students are not a great phenomenon by any means. My son is 29 and on an apprenticeship, whereas I have a degree, I see no issue either route. Schools won’t tell you this so take any advice they give with a pinch of salt. Good luck to your son!

OP I sill think you'd rather he did A Levels/degree!!

Honestly just encourage him to get the offer of the apprenticeship in writing and give him all of your support going forward.

He's doing a very tricky combination of A Levels... If he's struggling now then Year 13 is very much harder.

It's really OK NOT to go to university provided that you have a plan!

@Justwingingitsince2007 I read what you said about recruitment. It still doesn’t meet equal opportunities in terms of recruitment as no one else has had a chance. It’s still a vacancy that pays money so it should follow standard recruitment procedures, What about other dc who now don’t have a chance? I’m truly surprised it’s not been advertised with a recommendation DS applies. Obviously great for DS but I’d be amazed if meets recruitment policies at the company. Not that you should worry of course.

OP I think you are getting a bit hung up on the idea that he would need A levels for university. That is no longer true. There are now more routes into university and admission tutors who recognise the value of a good work ethic. I dont know about your local university but the national average drop out rate is over 6% and the rate is higher in universities that take people with lower grades. So if your son goes off to uni he may have something like a 1 in 10 chance of dropping out.

The change over from one type of engine to another is something to consider seriously but I'd still say take the apprenticeship and then consider a degree in more general engineering later.

@TizerorFizz

There's something in what you say, Tizer.

My worry about what sounds like an ad hoc arrangement for OP's son is that he might find himself accidentally disadvantaged later through no fault of his own.

I assume that there is a cohort in the middle of apprenticeships within the company already, to whom preference would be given if any cuts needed to be made.

My other concern would be whether the nature of his recruitment to the company would at some point be reviewed elsewhere, by HR, for instance.

I would be horrified if OP said that his/her son had accepted the offer and begun the job and then posted again later in the year to say that the apprenticeship had been rescinded because of some irregularity in the way he had joined. It would be so hard for him to get back on track at school at that point.

OP does say that the job offer has been made by a major car manufacturer on a par with Vauxhall. On the one hand, that means that it is a fabulous opportunity; on the other hand, it means that there are tiers of management above the level of the person OP's son knows; if they felt that something was not exactly right about the job offer, they might intervene.

There might be an advantage to OP's son applying for the scheme formally when applications re-open again, but that would mean staying to complete his A Levels, as I think that recruiting for apprenticeships would open again in the New Year.