ECHP - applying from an independent school?

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My child has auditory processing disorder. They wear a hearing aid in class, with the teacher wearing a roger pen. They are academically able with this support but I understand that APD is classed as both a physical disability and a learning disability. They have slow processing and have been assessed under the JCQ guidelines to get extra time in exams.

in the main we have funded most of this ourselves due to waiting lists - so both the hearing aid and the assessments etc. they are at an independent school which manages the situation very well, so my child has not fallen behind in a way that apparently is common for those with undiagnosed APD.

it is going to be hard for us to manage to cover the VAT on school fees, so we are now asking to go on nhs waiting lists again etc so that the next hearing aid is covered. I keep hearing that pupils with echps may be exempt from vat, and that there are long waiting lists for these applications so I wanted to find out more about them. Would my child meet the criteria for one? If we apply for one whilst in an independent school, it is possible just to have it noted that the criteria is met - there is obviously no way that I would expect the school to be named as the only school suitable, although in reality small class sizes are needed to minimise background noise. I’m struggling to find much helpful online , would be grateful for any help.

@jennylamb1 thank you I will look at

An EHCP is designed for children who need more support than is available through the normal special educational needs support at school. It sets out what their needs are and how they are to be met.

The LA then has an obligation to meet those needs. However, that obligation goes away if the parents/guardians make "suitable alternative arrangements" - which a self funded private school would almost always count as. So essentially you would end up with an EHCP, but the LA would have no obligation to fund it, unless you could convince them that the current school is the only school, private or state, that can meet his needs and thus name it on the EHCP (school would need to agree to this).

And no, no requirement to leave school to get it - I suspect the reference there was aimed at making the point that whilst your child is in independent school paid for by you, The EHCP is in practical terms useless. It would be more complex to get as well, as by definition the school is meeting need now, and it would be complex to argue how a mainstream state wouldn't/couldn't meet need as it's a hypothetical argument.

question, our grandson was diagnosed with adhd (privately and takes medication for his condition) is at an independent school and has an echp that the school has written up and follows. is this good enough or does he require something unique to the la (should he go to state school)?
the adhd is well managed by daily phys-ed, and the multiple activity breaks that the school offers do most state schools offer as much pe during school hours.
grandaughter needs an add assessment and will most likely be with the private clinician that is treating the brother.

An EHCP can only be issued by your LA, not the school on its own - if it's just something they wrote and follow, it's not an EHCP.

@CurlsnSunshinetime4tea that is probably an IEP an Individual Education Plan, written by the school for everyone to follow and to be reviewed regularly with parents and child

PatriciaHolm I was wondering could OP not make a case on the unique features of the private school that her child is at, that it meets her child’s needs uniquely, compared to the LA’s available mainstream schools? Is that the right legal comparator?

It can’t be reasonable to ask parents to compare their child’s private school to the LA’s special schools because their child’s eligibility will be unknown to parents and getting a place at those in reality is very rare such is the demand for them? So while in theory there might be an alternative, in reality the only reasonable and available option is the school that the child is already at?

OP- Have you got professional reports within past couple of years with details that would recommend the type of school that your DC attends? That kind of written evidence is important for EHCPs if you can get it.

The vat exemption that I think you are thinking of is for people who are disabled.

It applies to product or services to help you manage your disability,

I don't think you would be able to argue private school fees fall into that category. Hearing aids probably would though.

www.gov.uk/financial-help-disabled/vat-relief

Oh sorry, misunderstood.

I suspect that Labour are intending that children who attend a private specialist send school funded by the state as mainstream education is considered not able to meet their needs don't pay VAT.

I'd be surprised if the detail of their policy is such that EHCP alone exempts you, but it's always possible.

You should be aware that in some areas (mostly those subject to the "safety valve" EHCPs are routinely going over the usual timescales and the wait for tribunal to force the local authority to assess is in years rather than months.

The Government is likely to VAT exempt section 41 named SEN schools in the same way those schools are likely to be named on an EHCP whereas private schools are not.

There will be a huge argument to get a SEN child exempt from vat unless the private school is named and there is no section 41 school or mainstream school that can meet needs.

To get an EHCP and to get your private school named you would have to

1 Prove that you tried but state school failed your child

2 So that private school was the only school the only school that could meet needs eg there are no section 41 schools available.

The view the LA might have is that you are welcome to send your kid to a private school but they will be reluctant to name it in the EHCP.

if they were to name the school they would be responsible for the fees - there is no halfway measure.

You will be deemed to fall under section 42 (5) having made suitable alternative arrangements. So there is no naming of that school in the EHCP and I suspect no vat rebate.

In any event the LA take a view that APD can be met at universal level eg below high needs low incident thresholds. The teachers wear a microphone and they sit the child in front of the class. They ensure that the kid has understood instructions etc. This is accommodated for in mainstream.

Mainstream schools can meet the needs of various children and the bar is really high to suggest otherwise and get a non section 41 or main stream school named

To succeed in having the school named you will first have to argue for an EHCP

Next you will have to argue for that particular school- you will need SALT audiology and Ed Ostjf reports plus most likely lawyers.

The costs for tribunal will be thousands probably more then the VAT for several years and you have a really limited chance of success.

SOSSEN provided the best advice if you want to look at it further.

EHCP.

Our son has one due to a hearing impairment, where we lived it took 26 months to be issued, it took 18 months to get the draft EHCP.

In what way are your sons school unable to meet his needs and so means he requires the additional support an EHCP and associated funding can help?

The VAT differenve will be referring to children with an EHCP who have a named private special school, as this is the only school to meet their needs, in these cases the fees are paid by the LA, not the parent. These are for children with complex needs.

I doubt that all children with an EHCP will be exempt from VAT on school fees - have a listen to the podcast for info from a VAT expert.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/inside-your-ed/id1591570847?i=1000650451116

Probably not much help. But there is a child in DC independent school with a full ehcp, family pay zero school fees

I hate posting on these threads as I normally get ripped apart.

Check with ipsea, sossen and your counties send support team ( Google county name parent partnership) because ehcps if you are self funding in independent mainstream is not the norm.

EHCPs are written and owned by the LA.

The fastest way to circumnavigate delays is to apply yourself and you'd normally have to appeal. You do not need a legal team and if you did you can expect to pay tens of thousands possibly.

Appeals was taking 12 months. I have done double digit appeals.

Just really read up on the ipsea site. I'd love to help more but unfortunately I regularly get a good kick in from the sen community on here. I have never paid for legal advice. I represent myself and have got two kids into independent sen schools so it can be done. Get researching. The sen boards on here used to be very good. I don't post on them anymore.

There is what legally your child is entitled too, then there's reality. There is also judicial review to enforce the law. Good luck.

Thank you everyone. I will have a good read up. I think we will need to apply for one as it will hopefully be helpful if we do have to make to the maintained sector. At least if we get the ball rolling we will be in the system

But noted re the fact we can do it ourselves - I might get an initial consultation with an educational lawyer to get their thoughts and then take it from there

Our son has additional needs. EHC plans are not simply designed to meet educational needs but health and social needs too. If a child has an EHCP and the local authority cannot find a suitable school, in a small number of cases independent, specialist might be considered and the costs covered. However that would be to meet a particular need that cannot be met elsewhere and not simply because you want small class sizes. We chose state education for our son - it wasn't perfect (is anything) but it gave us access to a wide range of expertise (you still need to fight but it does exist). To be honest I don't have a great deal of sympathy for parents who can afford to buy in education lawyers but are making such an almighty fuss about the possible VAT increase. Or is this simply a thread designed to demonstrate that parents will need to compete for money from the LA if these fees are introduced.

The cost of engaging an education lawyer (a very specialist field) is likely to be more than the vat..

Hi OP, if you come over to the support thread posters there can help.

You are correct that parents can apply for EHCP if their child attends an independent school with fees paid by parents. EHCP depends on needs not school type.

We're in that position and have just got an EHCP draft in year 6 (applied autumn year 5). You don't need a lawyer. There's lots of free information available. I found IPSEA's most useful. You can expect to have to take the LA to tribunal at least once (it doesn't cost anything to do that).

Our school were supportive, if not particularly expert. There are other DC with EHCP there, despite it being an academically focused school. SEN and academic ability aren't mutually exclusive. DC don't have to be behind academically to get EHCP (ours is a bit, however).

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

I am literally talking about having an hour consultation with an education lawyer to see if they think we can apply. Given that the vat on our day school fees for the year is going to be 4K plus, and my child has years more education ahead of them, I think that will be a worthwhile investment. And no, this is not a thread to do as you suggest. If we need to move to the maintained sector, I too will be seeking out all the help my child is entitled to, and I am trying to make sure that I have paperwork in order so that if we need to do that we are best placed.

we are as entitled as anyone else to apply for help for our child. It will be up to the local authority to opine on whether they will grant it (as is the case for all children). Thank you to all those who have made helpful comments.

@Phineyj thank you I will do so

@MilliMollieMandi In my county you also cant easily get access to speech therapy or OT in the same way as you can in indi SEN. My son had a speech therapist in class every day all day in juniors and now has that three days a week at secondary. You would never see that in state sen school in my county. Bit this is for severe and complex needs.

Friends have spent 56k on barristers, solicitors and lawyers to get the same outcome as me who spent £0 on legal help. In fact someone has spent tens of thousands to end up in a worse position. Our kids are totally unsuitable for mainstream

We have spent about £5-£6k over 5 years on various reports, assessments and therapies. Plus the school fees, but we didn't know DC had SEN when we picked the school.

Our area has had a shortage of school places for years and "exports" about 20% of DC with EHCP to other areas for education.

If money is tight, which your post suggests if you wouldn’t be able to easily afford the increase in fees, don’t pay for advice now. Save your money for independent assessments if you need to appeal, potentially more than once. If you do seek advice make sure it is someone who actually knows SEN law and has SENDIST experience. Many don’t. Use IPSEA’s model letter to request an EHCNA. This is possible in the same way as someone in the state system. The only lawful test you initially need to focus on is that for an EHCNA which is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP.

If the LA fails to comply with statutory timescales, parents can force the LA to act, via judicial review if necessary.

To get an independent school named in section I you would need to prove the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DC’s needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. Then the LA must pay the fees and SEN support. Some LAs will sometimes come to an agreement whereby parents pay the fees and they pay the SEN support, but not all. Sometimes they will state you are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of their duty.

You don’t need to leave the school to get an EHCP. Even if you go on to make your own arrangements the EHCP can still be finalised and in place.

We have submitted 10 requests for a needs assessment since September. All apart from the last 2 which only went in a couple of weeks ago have been accepted.