How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

That is correct. In private schools it is very common to use for individual music lessons teachers who come in and are self employed (my children's father is a music teacher and all of my children have learnt at least 2 instruments from various teachers in that kind of set up). It is completely separate from the school fees bill in many schools and is a bill the teacher hands the child and not part of the school's profits nor its turnover and rightly not so.

Labour have said they will also apply their proposed new VAT to what I call the hotel element of fees - the boarding part of boarding school fees - which is about half the fees (as well as the other half a day school charges) which suggests they will be requiring schools to charge VAT on even day schools' school meals which are usually a separate item on the bill. None of =this is going to be simple. Another element for whcih we paid separately was school coaches to and from the school - I cannot now remember if we paid the school or a coach company - my feeling would be that Labour would not put VAT on that element.
I do not know if it would charge VAT on A level exam entrance fees - possibly not.

Due to the way charity law works if the changes mean schools have less money then they are allowed to provide less "public benefit" so would be allowed to stop doing things to help others such as letting outsiders use the tennis courts or having lots of bursaries.

Labour is cutting off its nose to spite its face with the 20% proposal but it is quite popular a proposal.. I encourage all mumsnetters to vote Conservative in July or whatever party will ensure Labour does not win. However we do need a different Tory party - one which returns to non socialist policies, which returns to lower taxes, smaller state and more freedom - the current Tory party is very big state high tax.

Not by me. Really if you’re just going to use the discussion as an opportunity to vent spleen over things other people have said what in earth is the point.

envy politics. Why not fund schools properly

It is a half baked at best policy. But Bridget Phillipson has just reconfirmed the broad intention on Question Time.

Perhaps if they had been privately educated Labours maths would be capable of working out that this is a potentially costly policy

It's a financially stupid policy, but for me it's also an ideological red line. If Labour are prepared to break with European law and remove the VAT exemption from education, which is so obviously a social good, regardless of whether it's provided privately or by the state - and all for the sake of a financially illiterate dog-whistle policy - then I will no longer vote for them. Simple. It's got nothing to do with the extra VAT I'll pay, which I can thankfully afford, and would happily pay via general taxation in order to improve state education and public services.

Keir Starmer was. Pity they didn’t teach him how not to sound like he’s struggling to go to the lavatory.

I'm assuming Sept 25.

They have to turn a headline into detailed policy. Is it VAT on all private education - university, swimming lessons, Adult education? StageCoach? Music lessons? What about tutoring? SEN classes? Remedial classes?

The negative impact on the UK's sports, arts and culture could reverberate for years. It's such a stupid policy.

And it isn't an easy piece of legislation to get right without unintended consequences.

Our school has changed billing, so costs of food, transport etc have been separated and raised. Prep is now afterschool club. Fees will cover only classroom time. Extra curriculars will be provided by the PTA.

You really don't understand, do you!

As a single mum with a ds on a maths scholarship, I pay half fees. It is takes every penny of my disposable income, but DS was desperate to go. He was bored stupid in primary & miserable, bullied for being a 'nerd'.

We have the A'level years left to do. Maths, further maths, physics & DT.

So it will cost me either an extra £1,800 or £3,600. I'm close to retirement but I'll have to find the money somehow.

Then he'll have to get a loan for university. Unless they add VAT to those fees too. If they do, he'll have to find an employer to sponsor him.

Even if it’s ‘just’ private education for now, I’d lay money on a high percentage of music teachers out there being being privately educated, the pool of musically educated people out there to teach anyone that can access it will shrink.

Too bad eh, if the govt can’t teach something it’s clearly not a worthwhile investment.

ditto drama, art, history, all the things that don’t add up to big money in career terms.

I feel for you @Meadowfinch but what do you think the rest of us are doing?

All our children have to get loans for university.

Wouldn't you rather all children with SEN were treated fairly?

Schools are suffering horrific under investment precisely because those in power don't have to worry about using them.

That may have always been the case but i fail to see why my taxes should be subsidising it.

The more enagaged, motivated parents in the state system the better.

So, the concern about practical and academic music disappearing from state schools isn’t new. It’s a big reason for DS being in the independent sector - music is where he excels despite his other difficulties.
MFL now seems to be joining this and the classical languages in being on the way to extinction in state schools.
our education system is in a bad way and no one has a plan to fix it, because no one cares enough. An aging society prioritises the old.

On the worry that university fees will attract 20% VAT, I'm already looking at universities in Europe who teach in English.

I have family in the Netherlands who would host ds, and if he gets the grades he is forecast, he would have no problem getting a place.

But we have some of the best universities in the world. Why would the govt (even a Labour govt) want to drive home grown talent overseas? It is completely nonsensical.

Leiden seems to be good.

The govt could improve the situation for children with SEN without disadvantaging a group of SEN parents that has their kids in private. They could be offering tax breaks to the many SEN parents buying extra SLT, OT, tutors etc to help their kids and encouraging investment whilst boosting funding through income tax.

parents with kids at private schools are subsidising state education through tax…

How are private educated parents subsidising state education through tax?

You say this as if it's a bad thing. It's literally the point of tax.

My dc aren’t going to add any value in state, I’ll be another parent in there moaning while my SEN dc fall through the cracks and add to mh waitlists as they can’t cope with the environment (as has been proven as we started at state).

But that’s ok because my friends will finally approve of me for not going private, and I can work less and pay less income tax - winner!

i agree @hamsterno1 because I pay thousands of pounds in income tax and my dc don’t take up a state place. If they do, the govt is going to lose both my income tax and have to pay to fund them.

but hey, that’ll be fair won’t it?

Yes. Half a million wealthy people should get an unfair tax break because of your very specific circumstances.

an unfair tax break for an investment in kids the EU wouldn’t charge VAT on, it’s not a tax break this is a new tax on education.

I don’t think my circumstances are that specific - there is a SEN crisis in schools, and labour should know this…they’re about to make it worse.

@hamsterno1 Your taxes aren't subsidising us. Quite the opposite. I pay for ds's state school place but don't use it, so that money (£6kpa) subsidises state pupils.

I then pay an extra £9k a year out of taxed income so ds can study without being bullied because he likes maths and physics, as was happening.

This policy is all about envy. I have a 'maths-head' ds despite being from a FSM family, and people can't bear the thought that he will have the chance to learn complex maths because that would be 'getting above himself'. He should 'know his place'.

Labour should think about preventing bullying, and improving poor schools rather than bring us all down to the lowest common denominator.

Exactly, my dc were bullied and friendless too before we moved them - I’m sure it’s completely unique and nobody in the state or private sector can relate @Meadowfinch

Look, kids with SEN only exist as sticks to beat the Tories with. How do you not know this?

Frankly, labour’s presenteeism register is an awful SEN policy and they have no other ideas such as properly funding support through income tax. I’ve always voted labour but they need to get some better ideas on SEN.

We can all relate. That's very much the point.

But we don't all have that as an option. Not all SEN kids have that as an option.

Everyone does the best for their individual child.

And no one is saying that opportunity shouldn't be removed from you, just that it should be taxed fairly like any other business.

Children with SEN are not being used as a stick to beat the Torys with, they're being used as fire cover for an unfair tax system and to get away with underfunding the state sector.