How soon might a Labour Government put 20% VAT tax on private school fees?

[jennylamb1]

That really. Given that an election date has been declared for July, how soon might a Labour Government set their first budget?

But isn’t the idea that the money raised will go into state education and so there would be better SEN provision at state schools? Which is what would’ve been better for these parents in the first place.

“Interesting. The way I've heard him blast it out on repeat, and include it in his big 6, I thought it was a personal vendetta. Are 'the far left' really in to this particularly? I'd have thought they'd prefer some more general 'tax the rich' policies that pull in significantly more money on an ongoing basis.”

Labour need some sort of “fox hunting” policy because they are scared of losing more votes to the Green Party.

Look the world is completely global and half the people they could tax more would be off to Dubai or even Ireland now in a blink so the old rhetoric of tax the rich won’t grow the economy. It will put off investment just as we are starting to come out of the slump.

There’s no specific commitment to spend any money raised on SEN and there’s no guarantee that it will raise any money at all. It depends on the drop out rate from private schools.

And how much is needed to reimburse private schools for the VAT they have already paid out in previous years as they will now be able to reclaim VAT on everything.

And even more worrying to a broad group, there is no commitment to make any serious increase in funding per pupil through income tax.

the IFS meanwhile is warning on a complete lack of honesty from all sides re the need for either taxes to go up, or public spending to fall.

@ThursdayTomorrow

"It is immoral that rich children receive a better education - they are already advantaged, as a society we should focus on bringing the bottom up, not pushing the top even further away, level out people’s lives."

Out of interest do you find private health insurance also immoral- where just because someone has wealth they can jump the queue and get operations / medical care whereas the less well off have to languish in a queue often in pain.

Or is private tutoring also immoral giving some children an advantage over others simply because their parents can afford private tutors.

Lastly would it change your opinion if I could show you that the VAT on private school fees would actually cost taxpayers more money than it raises?

There's lots of DC on the SEN register who don't have diagnosed SN or are not impacted to a degree that they would qualify for an EHCP (assuming appeal).

Private education is still a choice that can only be made if it is affordable. Because you are not paying fees for SALT or OT or specialist dyslexia teachers that you can't get in state but for small classes, extra-curricular etc which also benefit non SEN pupils. Most private schools charge extra for specific provision.

So all you are saying is that private benefits non SEN and SEN because of environment. OK. But if you think so you have to buy it and if VAT is added, that's the cost.

There are some small private schools that accept DC with an EHCP but most run a mile. Maybe that's part of the reason that parents claim that a lot of DC without EHCPs are in private.

I am still confused by documented crisis in state and the how threshold of needs not being met is arrived at. Is this just something parents say or is it based on LA criteria - it is part of the process for EHCP and appeal for independent. If private is not an option you apply for an EHCP and fight. If private is an option, it's a choice.

Sadly, I think that some posters are forgetting that some DC are hugely disadvantaged by their diagnosed SN that impact on their ability to ever live an independent life, even if they attended indi, and are using them to decry a fair tax that has nothing to do with SN.

And you know that’s a new low, accusing SN parents of using their children. What’s your experience of SEN @PocketSand ?

Since you ask, quite a lot.

DS1 ECHP, tribunal, specialist school placement. Sadly failed. Been a f/t carer for him for the past 10 years.

DS2 EHCP, bespoke package and internet school/HE through secondary, now at 6th form and sitting A levels in maths, further maths and physics and due to start degree in MEng in September.

Mainstream indi could not meet needs.

And I'm not accusing desperate parents who can afford private of using their children - why would they?

I'm saying they are being used. By those who want to retain privilege.

Private schools were not set up to help the disadvantaged. Don't pretend they were.

This is true. I have seen many parents spending more and more on 11+ prep with heavy tutoring focussed on selective grammar schools who could have otherwise gone to private.
This will only make it worse for the children whose parents can't afford to pay for tutors who could have managed to go to grammar schools but will miss out now.
This policy wouldn't benefit anyone other than the government coffers.

In the last two years three private schools have closed in our area. Two shutting up at the end of this term. I do wonder if the VAT policy looming hastened their demise.

(I spent years advising this sector so I do know what I am talking about)

Spaghetti, advising private schools, state schools or advising the government or civil servants on education?

@OhCrumbsWhereNow so actual fees wouldn't rise by 20% because the school would save VAT on expenditure.

So fee rises aren't going to be the massive hike you say they are.

The smaller private schools won’t benefit much from this, the larger schools - the Etons, the Marlboroughs etc will benefit massively and probably will be able to avoid passing on a significant percentage.

They will instead be reclaiming millions in VAT payments on big capital building projects.

You may not have noticed, but the worried parents on these threads are those at the small run-on-a-shoestring private schools.

‘You may not have noticed, but the worried parents on these threads are those at the small run-on-a-shoestring private schools’

Are they? What schools are ‘the worried parents on these threads’, attending?

I did wonder @PocketSand that sounds like a lot of fighting for support over the years.

Perhaps try reading the full thread and then you will have your answer.

In the same way there is a wide range of specialist provision for SN, there is also a wide range of private schools meeting different levels of need. Our indie has had a reputation for decades as being a centre of excellence for dyslexia in particular, but also attracts larger than average numbers of children with ASD or other specific learning needs. A handful gave EHCPs, but most of the SEN children do not. The school is ver open minded about taking on SEn, but also very honest about what level it can and cannot support, which is how it should be - no institution is going to be able to support all children equally.

Would my dc qualify for an EHCP? Honestly no idea. I wasn’t willing to wait years and let it get to the point of crisis when we had other options. SEND support in the state sector is very much in fire fighting mode, as in unless your child is literally on fire you aren’t anyone’s priority. They definitely aren’t able to provide proactive and preemptive interventions that support children before crisis.

DC gets lots of support through the school, some of which I pay for, but a lot of which is included. In a class of 10 a teacher is able to identify needs and provide accommodation much more readily, which means dc is better able to maintain regulation and engage more fully with the class.

I appreciate that your options might be different due to where you live, the nature of your dc needs, but I can assure you that private schools are sometimes a important haven for struggling SN children.

I'm horrified about a different aspect. My son skipped a year when he was in (state) primary school. So sent him to an independent high school, as they did not query date of births etc. Just called a local (state) 6th form college, and they said he'd need to say in year 11 for another year. He turns 16 in September, but they won't have him that academic year. I'm staggered at the inflexibility. So need to somehow find the money, VAT and all, for another 2 years. But apparently we're expected to, because catering to our son's specific needs (I know it's not ADHD or such, but it's a specific need) is a luxury.

@PoliteLemur

"This policy wouldn't benefit anyone other than the government coffers"

Actually it doesn't even benefit the Government tax take which would most likely be negative ie it will cost more than it generates

@PoliteLemur you still haven't explained why the tax take would be negative.

I don't agree that people would leave private schools or the workforce in droves. It may happen a little at the margins but not overall.

Sorry, I meant @1dayatatime

Tell me you know nothing about i dependent education without telling me you know nothing about independent education

Again, the ignorance is profound. And of course irrelevant. What is concerning is that the people who will be in government making decisions are no better informed, and it appears, not the best equipped to listen and learn