You know how a lot of us object to the way church schools run on state money but won't let any old taxpaying atheist in?

[WendyWeber]

Well....

DD1 didn't get a teaching job at a CofE school today because the person who did is a practising Catholic (and DD1 is any old taxpaying atheist).

I thought religious discrimination wasn't illegal? Or am I getting confused?

cat64 actually, when 2 candidates are equal- the equalities unit has advised us that we should toss a coin, and thus avoid unwitting discrimination.

It may have been the website I got it from - I know the old-fashioned Anglican version. I don't know the Catholic versions at all.

tbh there aren't enormous differences between the Catholic church and parts of the CofE.
the CofE in many respects has not moved away from its Catholic origins, though obviously there are some doctrinal differences, none of which would make any difference to teaching in schools I expect.

LaComtesse, the Catholic version of the Lord's Prayer is:
"Our Father,
who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

If said as a part of Mass however, the priest then says,

"Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ."

The the priest and congregation say,
"For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever."

Then the priest says,
"Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: I leave you peace, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever."

Then the priest and congregation say,
"Amen."

Thank you, girlfrommars.

I can now retire, at peace with the world as I know it

but this is a state school, so surely the nanny state should have a say in this matter?

sorry- I do have a strong personal belief that faith schools should not be funded by the tax-payer at all.

Church and state should be separate...

I've been to half a dozen Catholic funerals (my father's family), some of them the full works (requiem mass), others the slimmed down version. And the priest has never said all that extra stuff quoted below. It's just stopped short at 'deliver us from evil'.

You can tell my father's and subsequent generations are either CofE or heathens as half the congregation always stutters 'for thi...' before we manage to stop ourselves.

Ach.

Schoolis for learning things that are rational, provable.

Faith is for adults, if they so choose.

So many of us object to Faith Schools. Could we not start a movement.

The extra bit is said as part of the mass right before the 'extend the hand of peace' everyone shaking hands part.

See here

I'm a lapsed Catholic.

As for the school issue...

..many job vacancies at Church of England schools include in the job spec. that the applicant should "support the Christian ethos" of the school. That's probably why they leaned towards a Catholic rather than an atheist.

It may just have been that they didn't want an NQT.

Anyone who wants to discuss how we could end faith-based education should skitter over here.

Faith school chooses believer teacher over non-believer. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Whether faith schools should exist/be funded is of course a totally different argument.

actually, I don't think so. it just highlights the argument.
should religion be a criteria for selection in employment? (especially as to select, say, a doctor or a cleaner or a bookkeeper on the basis of their religion would be rightly illegal and abhorrent e.g. we selected a Catholic instead of a Jew because they will fit into our office better and balance out the religious make up of the office, we don't think a Jew oculd possibly add to the ethos of this workplace)
if so, why?
are we looking for the best teacher, or the best believer, with the most faith? how would that make them a better teacher?
do we think faith schools should prioritise faith over education?
do you have to be a believer to be able to teach about religion?
shouldn't we be teaching children about tolerance and open-mindedness, rather than only employing people from one religion?
what message does it send?
would it be OK for a non religious school to employ an atheist in preference to a Christian, because the Christian might pass on their faith to the children?
if not, why is it OK to prefer a Christian to an atheist?
I think it throws the arguments into sharp relief.

(In the mass they always add the extra bit which the priest says - they've said that in Catholic churches since at least Vatican II although it may depend on your area).

Catholic schools are allowed to give preference to Catholic teachers, I thought as an exception to religious discrimination laws.

I am not sure I am in favour of state education although I would like to see vouchers for the poor to put towards fees. I certainly don't think we need any state funded religious schools.

my kids are at a C of E school (local primary) and there is a lot of praying and thanking God etc in the assemblies and religious themed songs.
I sometimes feel a bit awkward as I am something of a lapsed Christian and a feel fraudulent when I say the prayers etc. I would feel more awkward not saying the prayers though.
I think it would be quite difficult to be an atheist teacher in that environment all the time, supposedly setting an example to the children.

the atheist teacher (or the Hindu one) could just, you know, teach and get on with educating the children. would it matter? s/he could certainly set a good example to the children even if she didn't have the same religion.
the sky wouldn't fall in I imagine.
and good for the children to have contact with people of different religions. waters down the segregation a little

But teachers don't just teach do they? As per my assembly example, they sing religous songs and say prayers. There are aspects to school life other than teaching

well, a teacher could teach religious songs, or just songs!
and not every single teacher needs to lead prayers

Wendy- i agree with you- and also Catholic isn't C of E is it- ooh- they might indoctrinate the kids about the wrong stuff- against ordination of women or something terrible.

And- on the other side- the community primary schools round here- at least three i know, are run by a kabal of evangelical born again Xhritians. We had real problems ( dh being mixed Jewish aisian rots) - teahers forcing them to write Jesus is alive, telling them that"all Muslims are stupid" Crikey- that was 6 yrs ago about, I WISH I'd taken that one further.......
As far as I'm concerned, faith just should not be in state schools, they should all be secular. The faith's can have their own schols if they want, and leave the prents to "teach/indoctrinate" our kids.

girlfrom- this is the C of E lord's prayer too, the old fashioned version, i don't think they have the last two lines any more in the modern book. but it's always what we were taught.
High Anglican church is very similar in ritual to catholicism anyway- insense and stuff etc...

Sorry, meant to paste it.

"Our Father,
who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

I'm just saying that it can feel awkward to me as a parent sometimes to be in an environment where everyone believes in God and behaves accordingly.
The school also go to the local church for various Christian festivals - parents are invited, but I have only ever been once.
Then there was the time when I was having a discussion with the headteacher one day she suggested that we pray for guidance.