Will VAT on private school fees lead to a partial collapse of the sector?

[mids2019]

Will VAT on school fees coupled with cost of living drive a lot of parents from the private sector or will the majority absorb the cost? Are the numbers that potentially end up in the public sector going to offset any gains to the treasury through VAT?

Labour are working at about 4-5% transfer rate to the public sector but is this an underestimate?

If Labour want to take the UK back into the EU Single Market (eventually) it will have to drop this because of the EU VAT rules preclude VAT on education. No one asks them this. This is a classic Lexit policy. Plenty of people cheering this policy are supposed to be remainers or rejoiners. Would they give it up if it meant rejoining the EU?

That’s really interesting about the EU.
I didn’t know that. I do think it seems very illiberal in principle to add a new tax on to education. And inconsistent- nobody is (thank god) suggesting nurseries or universities which parents pay for, should start paying VAT. What’s special about secondary schools? This is really shortsighted and yet it’s really depressing because Labour are locking themselves closer in to it with these promises not to raise general taxation. I say all of this as someone who’s voted Labour all my life.
Another shitty downside of Brexit. Thanks Cameron and Johnson for your pathetic power struggle in the campaign and in fact the entire Tory party for their pathetic self interested internal factional power struggle that unleashed this steaming shit heap on us all.

Well, so far they aren’t suggesting that they broaden education VAT but once the rubicon is crossed…

I’ll probably still vote labour and hope that this policy somehow gets modified in the end.

Yes I will too vote Labour because I am against child poverty and food banks and the awful neglect of the country the Tories have given us. (Well bottom line I will vote tactically to keep the Tories out, as the main priority, so let’s see where I live)

I guess I just wish I could still vote Labour as confidently or with as much realistic hope of a fresh start as I used to. Maybe I’m just old.

Agree re feeling old. I’d like the late 90s back!!

I’d like it if everyone made a pact and voted both the Tories and Labour out. Give the Lib Dem’s a go with the hope of bringing the country together rather than pitting rich and poor against each other as both the Tories and Labour do.

I agree, Lib Dems are great where I live but they don’t have a hope of winning the seat in the first past the post system. Agree we need new politics, it’s a laugh that labour are talking about wealth creation whilst punishing education.

It occurs to me that Starmer might not be able to impose VAT on education in Northern Ireland because NI is in the single market but I could be wrong. It could be only for goods not services.

3 out of 4 of the new great offices of state, pm, chancellor, home sec, and foreign sex will go to Oxbridge grads (actually Starmer has a masters form Oxford) so if this VAT rise is meant to be an attack on privilege of would make sense to add an Oxbridge premium to student fees if that was your aspiration . Many in high status roles have been to these universities and get attendance of from a state school seems to be seen egalitarian?

it is ironic that private school parents are being penalised at a time when Oxbridge have for a number of years commited to reducing private school numbers so we do really see a concerted assault by elites (from HE) on a private school system that inequality sends students to a number of HE establishments. I think to many in the general public there is still a 'free pass' from private schooling to Oxbridge which has actually be at been true in recent history.

the schools sending many to Oxbridge from the private sector are extremely selective and I wonder if they are victims of their own success as it gives the left easy targets with their proportions of leavers going to elite universities? If you start increasing the fees to say SPGS in reality you are taking a tax of parents of children who are naturally gifted any way and are moving forward in life because of their natural aptitude not necessarily education alone.

If you do want to go down this route it makes sense to look at further taxation of tutoring as that can be seen as a form of private education.

Sorry for the typos!

There are very few (i.e. less than 20) private schools in Northern Ireland. There are loads of (free) grammar schools and incomes are lower so there's no demand. Most of the "independent" schools are actually state schools, where a minority of fee-paying places (sometimes as boarding, for ex-pats or special circumstances) are offered within a state grammar. So the numbers involved are very small and almost certainly won't affect UK-wide policy

I will be voting Lib Dem, primarily because our local candidate is fantastic and where I live has a strong Lib Dem history, but also because I feel that a Labour-LibDem coalition is our best hope of avoiding this ill thought out policy which smacks of the politics of envy.

"If you do want to go down this route it makes sense to look at further taxation of tutoring as that can be seen as a form of private education."

Maybe you should get an exemption if you are tutoring due to SEN rather than tutoring to turn A grades into A stars (using old money to cover both GCSEs and A levels there).

Parents paying for tutoring for English and Maths to get that pass grade ultimately saves the country money as they then won't have to repeat the subject post-16...

Maybe some subjects should be VAT exempt...

If anyone wants to to understand Labour' s fundamental view on this please listen to this morning's interview on GN news. In a nutshell:
Labour councillor being interviewed on has just confirmed what we all expected. This isn’t about improving the state of education through increased tax they just want children out of independent school.

What’s GN news? (So I can watch)

Sorry GB news! I don't usually follow it but this was a really good challenge to Labour

Ta, I’ll have a look !

How would you prove it though? Both of mine are on the SEN register - would that be enough? And which type of SEN is ok? Or do people have to obtained formal diagnoses (a three year battle at least unless you go private).

and what about those capable of a stars but due to sen they are at Bs.

Appreciate your post but are we really supposed to be happy with just passing and punish those who strive for excellence?…

It’s obvious this school VAT is not really about raising money for state schools - IFS says this is not a serious money raising policy. It’s amazing - if you really want to improve state education, you need to push for progressive income tax rises.

listen to the rest is money interview with Paul Johnson on the total dishonesty on all sides re income tax and spending choices.

Agree with you both - and this is why it's all complete nonsense. There are so many different variables.

I have a DD who has serious SEN (no ECHP but documented diagnosis in place for ADHD and dyslexia since Y3). Despite the SEN she has target grades of 9/8 and can achieve those with a lot of extra help - which she doesn't get in school because the SEN department are just overwhelmed and are focused on those who are unlikely to pass, not on getting kids who should be getting an 8/9 up from a 6/7. So we pay for extra help from external tutors to provide what school cannot.

We never bothered getting the EHCP due to Covid years, too much else to focus on, being able to afford the tutors etc.

But if I was going to be hit by VAT etc, then I would go all out to get that EHCP in place - and thousands of other parents would do the same. The system is already broken and tens of thousands of parents suddenly applying will just make things worse.

There are enough issues in many schools that parents are reaching for tutors even if their children aren't SEN - lack of teachers in some subjects, disruptive classes that makes learning hard, wanting that extra bit of help to secure those top grades, or even just a 6th form place. DD's comp want a minimum of 6 GCSEs at grades 7-9 including English and Maths to get a place in their 6th form. Parents will not be leaving that to chance if the Maths is hovering at a 6/7.

Well done Labour

Priced out of private education – and turned away by the local school
State school governors have reported a “significant” rise in pupils applying to join mid-year as parents take their children out of the private sector because they can no longer afford the fees. A survey sent to more than 3,000 school boards found that in many cases places were not available and pupils had to be turned away. The National Governance Association (NGA), which covers 70 per cent of state schools in England and conducted the research, said the number of transfer requests mid-year hadRead in The Times and The Sunday Times: https://apple.news/ArjF-szKmR0ujdlYAAQNYqQ

The key to scuppering this is the SEND route. Even 20% of students at Westminster have diagnosed SEND according to the latest Inspection Report. Exempting them from VAT would incentivise them getting an EHC plan and this would presumably crash the assessment system. Does it oblige the Local Authority to contribute funding for their education too?

More evidence that this is not a well thought out, rational policy