Will VAT on private school fees lead to a partial collapse of the sector?

[mids2019]

Will VAT on school fees coupled with cost of living drive a lot of parents from the private sector or will the majority absorb the cost? Are the numbers that potentially end up in the public sector going to offset any gains to the treasury through VAT?

Labour are working at about 4-5% transfer rate to the public sector but is this an underestimate?

This has crossed my mind as well. I think they’ll want to tell us all that they’ll increase university funding. Any additional funding needs to come from somewhere though - either increased fees/VAT on fees, decreased spending elsewhere, or increased general taxation.

Of course they might - they start adding VAT on one form of education what’s to stop them doing it wherever?

Do you think this policy is trying to appeal to those that have not (unlike those hear) have thought deeply about this?

It does seem to be an appeal for votes from those who earnestly.believe that those using private schooling are seeking to gain an automatic advantage in terms of employment and life chances unfairly while the real reasons for choosing private schooling is nuanced.

Ok would like to see state schooling improving but general taxation might be the better lever. I also would want to see how the money would be spent specifically within the public sector. Will teachers incomes increase, will there be more facilities, more SEND provision?

One thing I don't think works is millions in New build. We have schools locally that are poor due to intake and despite spending vast amounts on some extremely modern buildings the outcomes are strangely still poor. Building contractors are very happy though.

My DS attends one of the highest performing state grammars in the country. From year 10, their class sizes are a maximum of 25 (smaller for many of the optional subjects). They absolutely do see the value in smaller class sizes even for exceptionally academic children.

Universities will put up tuition fees, no doubt about it. Saying that “Labour” will do this, is missing the point; this is one of those decisions that is going to HAVE to happen at some point, it’s just that the Labour government is the one that’ll get stuck with it and blamed for it.

Nope adding VAT to school fees doesn't HAVE to happen. This is a Labour policy through and through. Taxing education was illegal when we were part of the EU and so it should be. Education isn't a 'luxury item' regardless of whether there is a free offering available. If that free offering doesn't meet a child's needs, why can't a parent pay for something better?

Regarding universities, we had seen larger numbers of students going but with a contracting birth rate and the increasing cost of uni education and debt level, the sector will likely contract. In addition, as U.K. plc becomes less desirable internationally, international student numbers who make up the funding deficit contract as well. It is already happening. Here again most will blame it on the Tories and it being harder to emigrate here long term, but we all know it is more than that.

As the Labour Party don’t value the jobs of private school teachers I was simply wondering how much they value the jobs of academic staff? Do we know?

Well academics in humanities have been facing job losses and fixed contracts for years already, so no, I doubt they do respect academic jobs.

Labour will bear the legacy as they don’t have to add VAT at all

It’s a terrible policy but a vote winner and that’s what they’re focusing on

There are already swathes of redundancies and courses closing at Universities. What will happen unless fees go up is that the % of UK students will continue to fall as they aren't profitable and the Unis will have to fight harder for the overseas students. Many Unis will close and fees will become too high for poorer students. Honestly give it 50 years and we will be back to the times when only the truly wealthy/elitev will be able to afford anything but a basic education. Except there won't be the low skilled/manual jobs around for them to go into.
The whole education system needs rebuilding from scratch with cross party agreement and scrapping of party politics.

In the news today

https://apple.news/AgyWfwITzSmSXdDHeTwb0Fw

It’s long article. An interesting one. If you don’t have Apple News or I there a few screen shots below.

It is a good case study for private schools too. “Hostile Goverment rhethoric”
leading to an immediate huge drop in numbers… exactly what will happen to private schools.

@Araminta1003 Not where we are. The school has been part of too many families lives for too long and the parents won't be shifted because of some rhetoric and don't need to be shifted because of money. Of course, that won't be the same everywhere but it will be for the schools this policy is looking to target

@BigBalloonsPop - that is good and I think those who can should support these ancient schools and underlying charities and make sure the teachers keep their jobs and show some loyalty to the schools. I guess the very old rich schools have weathered many a political and macroeconomic storm including WW2 and Covid so what is a bit of temporary Labour Party hatred coming their way going to do. However, for all the smaller players of which there are so many and which represent the vast majority of private schools, this rhetoric could be a killer.

@Araminta1003 Yes absolutely. When you are looking at schools that are 500 years old it's like water off a ducks back, tho leadership will work to maintain that loyalty because as I have previously said tribalism can work two ways. That's why it'll be the things that actually would have been more inclusive that will go like the bursaries.

I feel very sorry for those at smaller private schools. They are going to be facing a hard time. I know a kid in the same year as my middle child and he is on his second school since going into seniors because of various needs that were not being taken care of the first one. So he is now at a small private school which will be one of the first to be swept away when all this comes in. It's heartbreaking and he'll end up properly messed up.

Some cities, where the percentage of kids in the private sector is high (i.e. Edinburgh and London come to mind) are going to feel this more than others. I think 25% of kids are in the private sector in Edinburgh and 33% in London. Not sure how the state schools are going to cope.....I am in London and thankfully my DCs are at the end of their schooling but friend and colleagues have been taking up 11+ places at grammar schools this past year (instead of private school places) and some are even planning to relocate to other parts of the country where the state school provision is excellent. Clearly not everyone can move jobs but in my field of work (medicine) there is always demand in other parts of the country. The trend towards WFH has also meant that people are more flexible to the idea of moving out to the suburbs to access better schools. My DSis works at an excellent 6th form college in Surrey and their applications were up this past year by 100%, mostly from kids exiting the private sector in London. I have a feeling that the less affluent kids who don't live as close to the school and aren't applying with such high grades will be the ones pushed out as the "selection"process is quite vague.

Around 20% across the country are in private schools for 6th form so that is likely to feel the effect.

less affluent kids who don't live as close to the school and aren't applying with such high grades will be the ones pushed out as the "selection"process is quite vague.

That’s exactly what will happen. As state schools’ performance is very much measured by exam results, any sensible head will be trying to admit those children who are likely to produce the highest grades.

Kindly stop clouding the issue with facts. The important thing is that we punish the rich people who have dared to succeed.

oh come on, most wealth in the UK isn’t based on ‘success’ - inherited / family wealth more like!

Every single penny I have and use for school fees has come from PAYE taxed income, some of it at 62%.

I have never been given anything either as a gift or inheritance and did not qualify for 30 hours funded childcare nor child benefit. Am I just acceptable collateral damage despite funding everything myself and paying huge amounts of income tax already?

The previous poster implied that rich people in general had gained wealth in the way you say you have, which often isn’t the case.

Personally I don’t think education should be charged VAT.

🙋‍♀️Same here. Are we an inconvenient truth?

Same here

Yes, likewise. I have no idea whether that's true for the majority of private school parents. Are we just self-selecting to post in these threads? (Not wealthy enough for this not to matter to us, and able to see that the policy will be ineffective as well as unjust?)