Innocent poll: Would you willingly send your DC to a so called poor school for the sake of.....

[fireflytoo]

...improving the standards of that school? There are often threads about all the issues revolving around so called good or bad schools. Many factors are blamed; class sizes, teacher child ratios, the middle class influence, sociological environments etc.

What I would like to know is whether anyone (especially anyone who gets cross at parents who move to good school areas or who pay for tutors etc) would willingly send their DC to a school where they know the DC would not nessecarily (sp?) get the best education....but where the school would benefit from having them there. (Presuming these said DC have supportive parents and the DC are quite capable of doing well.)

Hope I am not stepping on any toes here... I am genuinely interested in this question though.

"My first step to improving education in the UK would be to improve standards of self discipline and self respect "

How will you do that MB?

I am serious ST
The pressure on children/parents/teachers to make everyone academically successful is ridiculous
Hysrical in fact
I agree with MB's point about self discipline and self respect

Hysterical I mean

I suppose you would have to make big changes in society to do that Kathy

I agree that low level disruption is one of the biggest problems endemic in state schools today. It is not something that you can pin down to any particular social class, either - all kids are capable of it and it is infectious. You can get it in independent schools too, but there's more that these schools can do to nip it in the bud, so it tends not to be a growing problem.

I think kids in top sets can do fine, and those in the very bottom often are in small classes with extra help. I despair for the masses that make up the middle sets though.

I spent two years in a variety of schools, and low level diruption is one of the thing that convicts me about private education for my own children. I'm not doing it for status or mixing or anything like that - I'm doing it so that my kids can get 35 minutes of proper learning in every 40 minute lesson. Anything else is a bonus.

"The pressure on children/parents/teachers to make everyone academically successful is ridiculous"

I think I agree with that, but I suppose it's to do with being a post-industrial society where people will have to get jobs in service industries where literacy and numeracy are more important than they used to be when there were industrial or agricultural jobs.

I very much agree with 5c's post of 16.56. This debate, IMO, comes down to whether it is preferable to perpetuate class and education imblanaces, or to seek to redress them. Achieving the latter requires a lot of governmental action, but also some altruistic behaviour on the part of those who are already privileged.

Mrs Ruffalo - phraseology is all in this though!

I would argue that what people are concerned with is making sure that their children realise their academic potential (whatever that might be).

I can think of no greater failure as a society than having children who have failed to achieve the best that they were capable of academically, for whatever reason, crap schools, crap behaviour, crap parenting. Of course it happens, indeed is happening all around us, but that does not make it any less scandalous!

"My first step to improving education in the UK would be to improve standards of self discipline and self respect "

How will you do that MB?

I don't think this is something schools can do. The problem is rooted in poor parenting and in poor values in our society.

By successful I mean going into further education I suppose
Most people do learn basic numeracy/literacy don't they?
In that they can read and write and add up a bit

Mrs R, I think that sadly not all children do achieve basic numeracy or literacy during their school years

God , if I knew that Kathy I'd be rich!

I would apply appropriate courses for children far earlier than we can at the moment. We can give kids motivational courses for the less traditionally academic at year 10, but they have had 3 years of the KS3 curriculum teaching them that school is not for them.

Good consistent school discipline policy. Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative. And no messing with Mr in Between!

Internal EBD school in each school , properly funded with trained staff. Same for SEN provision, inclusion will only work if properly funded and the children involved get real support.

A move away from the 'Only the academy is valued'. For some kids this is never going to be for them. Vocation studies should be real, rigorous, and designed with the needs of employers in mind. Far better that a child is valued for real success in vocational work than trying to pretend that everyone can be successful at the same things. They can't. I could study French for ever and I would never really succeed.

No not all soapbox, I agree
But surely most?

Re literacy and numeracy....I have taught many children in year 7 (ie 11) who have reading ages of 6

I'm teaching a child (NT and not on the SEN reg) for 14 who cannot tell me what is 3x5 without a calculator.

I have taught students in the sixth form who cannot multiply and divide by 10 in their heads....and I teach a science subject!

Some children do leave good schools without having achieved basic levels of literacy and numeracy despite pretty intensive intervention. It isn't all down to poor schools.

Mrs R - I can't really find much in the way of results re numeracy and literacy. Although I did find this paper which states:

'This year's national test results showed that 93 per cent of 11-year-olds in
England achieved a level 3 in reading, the level expected of a 9-year-old.'

It is slightly baffling though, as surely what is expected of a 11yo will be based on what 11 yos typically achieve i.e. a level 3.

Agree MB. I think there really is a crisis in parenting. Partly because it's so much harder now - modern technology, 24 hr TV, t'Internet, mobile phones etc, not being able to let your kids play out unsuperived (which is where I learned a lot and played with kids from all different backgrounds), both parents working, advertising blah di blah. I've spoken to so many parents at parents evening who admit they cannot control their own children.

I'm not saying there was ever a golden age but there was a time when you could just turn your kids out and they had to get on with each other and just PLAY. Or they might get hooked by reading. I come from a family of readers and I'm a reader but even though my kids could read at an early age I notice they don't read as much as I did. And this is because there are so many other, more immediate, shinier and more whizzy distractions. And, if I'm honest, because I've been too willing to turn to CBeebies so I get a minute's peace and time to do my marking.

Nowadays (God, I sound old) sitting still in a classroom is actually quite challenging in itself for kids because they don't have to sit still and quiet in any other situation. Whereas sitting still and quiet would be fairly par for the course even 20 years ago pre mobile phones, Wiis etc.

I think as well as the instant gratification that kids demand nowadays, there are other parenting issues.

I think we are way too tolerant of bad behaviour - teens who grunt instead of saying 'good morning', for example.

You just have to look at the Teenagers section of this site to see how parents feel powerless to deal with bad behaviour. I don't get it. With my kids, they know where they stand, and they know that I am fairly laid back, but my limits are my limits and no amount of logic from them will make me change.

But the issues in school happen far earlier - right from nursery.

They'll sit quietly if you let them have their Ipods

"All the other teachers let them..."

GRRRRRRR

'I wasn't texting in the lesson miss, I was turning it off'

MY Fat Arse!

Agree soapbox- it is a baffling statistic.

TBH I think we all know the right things to do.
I think the government have actually tried to intervene and improve things long term by setting up Sure Start which offers excellent facilities but has trouble reaching the parents it was intended for

I don't think anyone is saying state=poor, private=good!! The OP said poor school-there are lots of excellent state schools!
Education gives choices in life. I want my DCs to go to a school where the other parents value education, support the school and make sure the DCs follow the school rules. I want the DCs to be interested and enthusiastic and WANT to learn.I don't want anyone (other children included) to tolerate poor behaviour.

I think the op meant non fee paying by poor school

I thought mobiles were banned in most schools? Or am I being hopelessly naive. They are at all the school here. And we've got some crap schools.