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Not having a teacher at all!

131 replies

eatdrinkandbemerry · 24/04/2024 19:55

Who do you complain to if you child is only being taught by an HLTA.
Headteacher just says if you don't like it there's plenty more schools!
I'm not impressed at all it's been almost 4 months and surely it's not supposed to be that long.
I have read it's supposed Eve a short term cover not a whole maternity cover.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 25/04/2024 12:31

I actually think some of staffing issues are down to SLT in schools. Some of them are just poor. No one wants to work for them. They and their governors don’t look at the wellbeing of staff and how to work smarter. SLT is recruited in the image of the Head and often that’s not great.

Im afraid parents have been swearing at teachers since the year dot. In some areas it’s hardly a new thing. It is of course why some teachers won’t work in some schools. However good teachers will move and find better managed schools with many parents being supportive. Most parents are, of course, perfectly normal but you are going to get drug takers, those with MH issues and the downright rude coming into school. Dreadful people often have dreadful children. A school setting boundaries can go some way to protect teachers. In well run schools, heads see the difficult parents and never alone.

We don’t know if the school has tried to recruit. It could just be saving money. Many schools do still have former employees, or those they know who want casual work, to come and cover. Heads and deputies without a class do the same. Head obviously not ideal but they should be a brilliant teacher! Plus they get to monitor the class. No teacher at all is dreadful.

Catopia · 25/04/2024 12:44

eatdrinkandbemerry · 24/04/2024 20:24

But this one isn't!
She's not following my sons sen plan and punishing him for things that are identified on his plan and not being supported!

In this situation, you need to arrange a meeting with her and the SEN lead at the school to discuss his plan as the next step. * Update - just seen the post that the SENCO has left - well someone has to be dealing with this, that's not an acceptable excuse for children's SEN/ECHP plans not being followed. *

This problem isn't caused by them being a HLTA, and it wouldn't improve with a supply teacher/string of supply teachers who would have no prior knowledge of the children or their SEN plans. What's needed is an intervention with the person to ensure they are aware of the content of plan and what that means for how your son's learning needs to be approached in the classroom.

LiterallyOnFire · 25/04/2024 12:47

eatdrinkandbemerry · 24/04/2024 19:55

Who do you complain to if you child is only being taught by an HLTA.
Headteacher just says if you don't like it there's plenty more schools!
I'm not impressed at all it's been almost 4 months and surely it's not supposed to be that long.
I have read it's supposed Eve a short term cover not a whole maternity cover.

The main thing that determines the complaints chain is whether it's a maintained school. Is it? (Maintained and controlled by the local authority.) Or is it private or an academy?

eatdrinkandbemerry · 25/04/2024 12:48

Maintained by the LA.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 25/04/2024 12:50

Schools must have a Senco by law.

schoolleaders.thekeysupport.com/staff/staff-ratios-and-qualification-requirements/leadership-roles/senco-qualifications-requirements/

If no-one is currently in the role I think the responsibility devolves to the head but I could be wrong.

LiterallyOnFire · 25/04/2024 12:51

eatdrinkandbemerry · 25/04/2024 12:48

Maintained by the LA.

That's the best news possible.

There's a formal complaints process that will be written down somewhere that usually starts with writing to the head and can escalate by degrees, via the board of governors to the LA. It should be on the school website.

Given that the head has given a very clear "like it or sod off" response, though, raising concerns directly with the governors or the LA wouldn't be outrageous. It's up to you. Local councillors can also be very helpful.

Be persistent.

boombang · 25/04/2024 12:54

eatdrinkandbemerry · 25/04/2024 09:17

I will just keep him home until his Ehcp can be met 🤷‍♀️.
Watching your son self harm because his identified needs are not only not being met he's being punished for thing's beyond his control.
It's not so easy to just move schools when the LA have named this one!
I wouldn't be as bothered about an experienced HLTA teaching my other child but this one is not experienced, hasn't the knowledge of my son's diagnosis and is quite frankly struggling with the class! (When the class had a qualified teacher the teacher had an HLTA but now the HLTA has no support).

The HLTA has agreed to take on the class. As in they are turning up each day and doing it, without a gun to their head. So in that sense, you are lucky. Noone else has agreed to take on that class. You honestly cant complain about jobs not being done when there is simply no one who has agreed to do it. No teacher has agreed to teach your sons class. Not SENCO has agreed to work in your sons school. So all the statutory requirements in the world are irrelevant if there is no one who has agreed to take the role of the person required to meet them

eatdrinkandbemerry · 25/04/2024 13:08

I can't quote the previous poster but of course I can complain when my son is hurting himself due to unmet needs!
Am I supposed to just let it happen when he's got an EHCP that is not being followed!
You wouldn't if it was your son !

OP posts:
boombang · 25/04/2024 13:32

eatdrinkandbemerry · 25/04/2024 13:08

I can't quote the previous poster but of course I can complain when my son is hurting himself due to unmet needs!
Am I supposed to just let it happen when he's got an EHCP that is not being followed!
You wouldn't if it was your son !

what unmet needs does he have?

But as I said, if no one agrees to do the job, then there is noone doing the job. We don't have forced labour in this country! It has to be a job that someone agrees to do, or it wont get done

LiterallyOnFire · 25/04/2024 13:36

Don't be silly @boombang the school is under an obligation to appoint a SENCO, fulfil EHCP, bore an appropriate staff etc.

boombang · 25/04/2024 13:38

LiterallyOnFire · 25/04/2024 13:36

Don't be silly @boombang the school is under an obligation to appoint a SENCO, fulfil EHCP, bore an appropriate staff etc.

You cant appoint a SENCO out of thin air! If nobody agrees to do it, then there won't be one.

Same as class teacher. You only have a class teacher if someone agrees to be a class teacher. Frequently no one does, hence so many children in the UK being without a class teacher in primary, or subject teachers in secondary.

There are no spare teachers hanging round looking for jobs like this. NO one is agreeing to do it.

What do you want the school to do? Dismantle an old bus and build a robot teacher out of the parts?

noblegiraffe · 25/04/2024 13:39

Schools can be obliged to have teachers all you like, but if no one wants to do the job, what then?

The normal market suggestion would be to offer more pay. But schools don't have the money to offer more pay.

BadSkiingMum · 25/04/2024 14:01

I’m an experienced teacher, previously SLT. I’m at home today, well everyday really! I am currently looking for work, have postgraduate qualifications in education and lots of skills, knowledge and experience that I could bring to a school.

But I know full well that if I tried to go back to a teaching job:

My teaching references would be deemed ‘too old’
’Return to teaching’ programmes no longer exist
I would be perceived as too expensive or a threat to younger SLT
I would regularly find myself asking: ‘What’s the evidence for this approach?’ Probably before the end of the first staff meeting!

That’s before I even get onto the fact that the hours I would want to do (due to family responsibilities) are not at all compatible with the expectations of a teaching job.

So, having been effectively forced out of my final teaching job by being refused flexible working after maternity leave and prevented from returning when I tried to do so by the demise of part-time cover roles (due to TAs covering, as per this thread), I now work in a different sector and, despite having QTS, not once has any school, local authority or government body reached out to encourage me to return.

AloeVerity · 25/04/2024 14:15

The SLT at this school sound useless. There can’t be no SENDCo legally and as @WearyAuldWumman said, any head worth their salt would be covering at least part of the week. This is happening in two schools in our area right this very minute, so isn’t an outdated concept as some seem to be implying 🙄
Homeschool and then look to move, OP. I’d also get in touch with an independent EHCP consultant who can advocate for you. That’s the only way things move in our county. It’s awful.

TizerorFizz · 25/04/2024 16:08

In a small school often the SENDCO is the head. It’s a job that must be done as far as I’m aware.

Headfirstintothewild · 25/04/2024 16:10

Is the provision that isn’t being provided detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP or is the wording vague and woolly?

If vague and woolly, it can’t be enforced, unfortunately. At the next review you should look to have it tightened up. You may need to appeal.

If the wording is detailed, specified and quantified, email the Director of Children’s Services using one of IPSEA’s model letters. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the provision is provided. If that doesn’t work, email again threatening judicial review. Then, if that fails, you need a pre-action letter. SOSSEN can help with that, but there is a long wait so you may wish to look elsewhere.

Alongside this, complain to the school.

boombang · 25/04/2024 16:12

The head may not been qualified to act as SENCO, or may not even be a qualified teacher. And may have too many other roles

Octavia64 · 25/04/2024 16:14

boombang · 25/04/2024 16:12

The head may not been qualified to act as SENCO, or may not even be a qualified teacher. And may have too many other roles

Doesn't matter.

Legally a school has to have a Senco

If no-one is doing the job it'll be the head.

Doesn't matter whether they want it or not.

noblegiraffe · 25/04/2024 16:15

They might have the title, but that doesn't mean the work is getting done.

boombang · 25/04/2024 16:15

Octavia64 · 25/04/2024 16:14

Doesn't matter.

Legally a school has to have a Senco

If no-one is doing the job it'll be the head.

Doesn't matter whether they want it or not.

The cant do it if not qualified.

TizerorFizz · 25/04/2024 16:15

Yes. Latest Governance Guide (7March 24) underlines MUST have a SENDCO. Para 7.2.3. So Governors are not fulfilling their compliance role.

Spendonsend · 25/04/2024 16:18

boombang · 25/04/2024 16:12

The head may not been qualified to act as SENCO, or may not even be a qualified teacher. And may have too many other roles

Its alright they only have to complete the qualification within 3 years of starting the role. If you change your senco frequently enough you can avoid doing the qualification.

Caffeineislife · 25/04/2024 16:55

@BadSkiingMum is right about the situation around 10 years ago. Our own 'tame' supplies did the PPA cover (4 form inner city primary) were 2 retired teachers one did 3 days and the other did 2 and 3 teachers who had returned from maternity leave and had dropped down to 2.5 days a week. All 4 had taught at the school for years and we're well known to the children. They knew the behavior system, the mark scheme, they had their own logins for the computer and could access the register and schemes of work, knew their way around the building, all the staff, the children's names. It made a huge difference to pupil outcomes day to day. If someone was unwell, the head would ring these 4 teachers first and usually one of them was able to step in. Same with if you needed to go on a course, one of them was able to step in. One of the retired teachers stepped up for a term when one of the teachers at our school left at Easter.

Unfortunately new head, became a MAT and budget constraints meant that the 2 retired teachers were not kept on, The 3 who returned post maternity leave were pressured to step up to full time or look for other jobs. So then we ended up with a rotation of day to day cover supervisor supply for PPA cover as it was "cheaper". It increased everyone's workload as the cover supervisors needed planning and lessons prepared for them whereas before the 'tame' staff did their own (they preferred it that way), nothing done by the supply was marked and the new head expected all books and ALL work to be triple marked. If you were unwell you had to come back and triple mark any work done by day to day supply. TAs pulled to cover classes last moment. 1-1s taken off children and put in to support the TA taking a class. Behavior tanked. Workload increased. 18 members of permanent teaching staff gone in 1 year. 3 years down the line there were 3 permanent staff left (all on visas so couldn't leave). The head had the exact same response to parent complaints as OPs, if you don't like it move.

Unfortunately there isn't the teaching staff any more. Many many supply got screwed in Covid and then got jobs elsewhere. School budgets are wrecked. Workload is awful, behaviour is awful. No one wants to work in schools now. Especially since COVID where so many work places are more flexible.

eatdrinkandbemerry · 25/04/2024 16:56

Headfirstintothewild · 25/04/2024 16:10

Is the provision that isn’t being provided detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP or is the wording vague and woolly?

If vague and woolly, it can’t be enforced, unfortunately. At the next review you should look to have it tightened up. You may need to appeal.

If the wording is detailed, specified and quantified, email the Director of Children’s Services using one of IPSEA’s model letters. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the provision is provided. If that doesn’t work, email again threatening judicial review. Then, if that fails, you need a pre-action letter. SOSSEN can help with that, but there is a long wait so you may wish to look elsewhere.

Alongside this, complain to the school.

It's tight as a ducks bum.
I paid an arm and a leg for the EHCP to be quantified and specified.
I've emailed the chair of governors and hes meeting me in the morning to discuss moving forward.
Provisionally he agrees with me that at the very least the class should have another TA to carry out the basics that the HLTA can't do solo.
My son has muscular dystrophy so all his OT am and pm is to be done by a TA ( under guidance from occupational therapist who sees him termly).
He also needs hourly sensory breaks but can't have these if there's nobody to supervise as he can't be left alone.
He needs help with cutting up food but again no senco to enforce this so he's not eating in school.
He is actually academically years ahead so needs differentiation but this isn't happening (not bothered about this as it doesn't affect his health).
Needs assistance changing for pe but none available so he's left on the sidelines to watch.
Needs laptop for handwriting tasks but nobody to bring his technology so he's left behind trying to write at a snail pace.
Hopefully with the governor on board we might get somewhere.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 25/04/2024 17:11

Isn't a TA to do all this specified in the EHCP?

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