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50 years on and still we disadvantage children with learn differences

81 replies

silverridgerider · 23/04/2024 12:35

50 years ago I started school, the thick kid. I struggled reading and wtiting and was put in the bottom set for everything and left to fail. 40 years later with a diagnosis of dyslexia I gained a PhD. Yesterday my son who is on the spectrum was treated as a criminal because his parents gave him help with his GCSE PE essay assesment. "Malpractice" is the term the school used. His essay was deleted and he was given 4 days to rewrite an assignment that took 4 months to research and write, all his diagrams, pictures deleted. Oh and he was given a detention just to reinforce his wrong doung! 50 years! and we still put these children at a a disadvantage. It is not enough that they have learning difficulties....the education system is not interested in what they know. They subject them to questions written for neurotypicals and give them no help so that they can understand what is being asked. As parents you help them with different words and sentence structures in the name of educating and learning and your child is sanctioned.
What sort of society lines its neurodiverse child up to fail? We give them extra time and scribes, but what use is that if the child does not understand the questions. My son knows masses, but our education system wants him to fail!
We know how to ask questions using alternative, wording, videos, prompting, but the system is determined that they are disadvantaged at birth and they will remain that way through their education. Am I cross....I am incandescent. 50 years and we are still the thick kids!

OP posts:
Weighnow · 23/04/2024 16:58

HoneysuckleBookcase · 23/04/2024 16:51

Regarding point two, I think perhaps new ways could be developed so that employers could see a prospective employees skill set without gcses. We are a diverse and inclusive society, are we not?

Of course, but some children aren't going to pass GCSE. That's doesn't mean no children should be able to show they've achieved a basic level of academic achievement any more than it means those who haven't won't be able to contribute, but they will need to do it differently, if they need significant parental input to pass GCSE PE.

Weighnow · 23/04/2024 17:01

OP you've done very well, no doubt worked very hard and achieved your PhD. Do you think other less able people should have had what ever help they needed so that they can have one too?

Overthebow · 23/04/2024 17:04

You cheated for his coursework, of course you can’t do that and it be ok. The school was right to pick this up. They need to be able to do it on their own and get the grades that reflect that. What use would it be to employers for him to get a grade only because you did it for him, you’re not going to be at work with him?

MrsHamlet · 23/04/2024 18:01

noshadowatnoon · 23/04/2024 16:56

You are lucky, actually, that he hasn't been disqualified

If he's signed the CAF, he still could be.

Itradehorses · 23/04/2024 18:08

So, I'm with you and understand your feelings. But think where you come unstuck is that what you've done wasn't done with agreement by the school or exam board as an agreed "reasonable adjustment" to mitigate his disabilities and to facilitate his inclusion. I have a SEN child and get it, but you can't fly solo on these decisions and assume it will be accepted. I think you have to have a conversation with the school that isn't all heat and fury, and you may have to apologise for not seeking agreement and consent, and then you get on with collaborating to find a way to fix it and to allow him to submit work with agreed reasonable adjustments in place.

Itradehorses · 23/04/2024 18:15

There's a lot of ships passing in the night on this thread. It's not helpful to characterise what happened as cheating. Misguided yes, cheating no. It's standard for disabled students to have reasonable adjustments to facilitate inclusion and that can also be to exam rules. I have an autistic son and can well imagine that when the time comes, he will need his one-to-one support to help him regulate and to take breaks etc. The OP was trying to help his son in what he thought was a reasonable and okay way, but went wrong because he didn't agree it (or any boundaries around what help could be given) with the school or the exam board. All very regrettable, but let's not crucify honest mistakes. A cheater wouldn't be on here talking about it. And the OP's sense of injustice suggests he hasn't yet appreciated his role in this mistake happening, even if what he did was well intentioned.

TinyYellow · 23/04/2024 18:24

I completely agree that the system has its flaws when it comes to providing for students with learning difficulties, but there is support available too. It’s nonsense to say that education for children with SEN hasn’t moved on in 50 years, teachers bend over backwards to accommodate children’s needs using countless interventions. It isn’t enough yet, but the will is there.

Having a scribe in an exam is a completely different thing to having one for an essay that you have months to write. You blatantly told your son to cheat if you did things like scribe for him and suggested wording to him. It’s not the system that owes him an apology, it’s his parents.

MrsHamlet · 23/04/2024 18:37

It is malpractice, whether people here like it or not. The JCQ regs set out what is and isn't allowed, and what the OP has done is not allowed.

Greywitch2 · 23/04/2024 18:45

"Malpractice" is the term the school used.

That's because this is the correct term to describe the fact that a student has not written their coursework entirely by themselves. It's slightly kinder than 'cheating' which is in effect what it is.

I agree with @Simonjt that JCQ are very clear on what would be considered malpractice. In any element of coursework it has to be the student's own work - not work that someone else has 'helped' with. That's how qualifications work.

Schools do make reasonable adjustments for ND or SEN students - but you can't just do the work for them and pretend it's theirs!

Itradehorses · 23/04/2024 19:04

Malpractice doesn't always mean cheating though does it? Genuine question. Malpractice can arise innocently from a misunderstanding of the rules, but still lead to a procedural decision to reject work, or disqualify a candidate? I think it's important to reflect on the difference because cheating is dishonest but mistakes are human (we all make them). I think OP is responsible for the situation, but I think he needs some generosity shown here as it's his son that's really suffering, and he needs to fix it. He can only do that by accepting his mistake, and having a discussion with the school about where the son goes from here so he can finish his examination rather than dwelling on the shock and upset of what happened.

GreigeO · 23/04/2024 19:07

You're cross with yourself.

You're the one who's let him down, not the 'system'.

MrsHamlet · 23/04/2024 19:10

If the centre identifies malpractice before the CAF is signed and the work submitted, they can allow the candidate to address the issue.

If the CAF is signed, it should be reported (it's malpractice not to) and the awarding body will decide what to do.

MehGeography · 23/04/2024 19:25

It's hard OP but it does sound like malpractice (the official word for cheating) unfortunately.
Your son will have had reasonable adjustments made for him in line with what he needs within the rules. Extra time/scribe/reader/breaks/quiet room etc.
You stepped outside those reasonable adjustments.

Sirzy · 23/04/2024 19:31

If he was struggling you should have contacted school and asked them for help and guidance. Doing to work “with” him undoes the point of coursework.

notyouagainbantu · 23/04/2024 20:05

I agree that giving a child excess help to the extent where it isn't their own work is cheating. However, I'm surprised that a complicated piece of work requiring hours of research and diagrams is a requirement for passing GCSE PE. I expect most children taking this subject aren't seeking a career where writing complex written reports is part of their every day job. A multiple choice exam would make more sense.

Greywitch2 · 23/04/2024 20:13

notyouagainbantu · 23/04/2024 20:05

I agree that giving a child excess help to the extent where it isn't their own work is cheating. However, I'm surprised that a complicated piece of work requiring hours of research and diagrams is a requirement for passing GCSE PE. I expect most children taking this subject aren't seeking a career where writing complex written reports is part of their every day job. A multiple choice exam would make more sense.

GCSE PE requires a huge amount of work. Suggesting a multiple choice exam, is really quite insulting to be honest and shows you don't understand what is required for this level.

GCSE PE involves an awful lot of knowledge about how muscle groups work, how to train, etc. I remember being awed when one of my did it a few years ago. They had to look at fitness strengths and weaknesses, skill strengths and weaknesses and do a lot of evaluating skills. It sounds like you are really dismissive of PE as a subject.

I think you'd be surprised to learn what GCSE Textiles or DT now involves.

BaconCozzers · 23/04/2024 20:19

Yes "the system" should support and work for sen students more, no there hasn't been enough progress in 50 years. However... "He had help in accessing different words and sentence formulation.." sounds a lot like code for "I am the co-author of this work". It sounds like you have come down on the wrong side of "helping", and it would be unfair on other candidates if the school allowed it. I wish your son all the best op.

MississippiAF · 23/04/2024 20:26

notyouagainbantu · 23/04/2024 20:05

I agree that giving a child excess help to the extent where it isn't their own work is cheating. However, I'm surprised that a complicated piece of work requiring hours of research and diagrams is a requirement for passing GCSE PE. I expect most children taking this subject aren't seeking a career where writing complex written reports is part of their every day job. A multiple choice exam would make more sense.

This is a really old-fashioned (and quite offensive) view of PE as a subject. It’s not an ‘easier’ option for less able students

notyouagainbantu · 23/04/2024 21:38

MississippiAF · 23/04/2024 20:26

This is a really old-fashioned (and quite offensive) view of PE as a subject. It’s not an ‘easier’ option for less able students

If you want to be offended, be offended- but ability to write assignments mainly tells us that someone can write assignments, which may be an irrelevant skill in the era of AI anyway. I don't think it's a good way of assessing how well someone understands sport and movement etc, how good they would be at performing, and coaching and educating others, and I think there must be better ways of assessing these things (e.g. video diaries). Someone who isn't a brilliant writer isn't necessarily 'less able' in any case.

Simonjt · 24/04/2024 05:57

notyouagainbantu · 23/04/2024 20:05

I agree that giving a child excess help to the extent where it isn't their own work is cheating. However, I'm surprised that a complicated piece of work requiring hours of research and diagrams is a requirement for passing GCSE PE. I expect most children taking this subject aren't seeking a career where writing complex written reports is part of their every day job. A multiple choice exam would make more sense.

So a course that is essentially 50% human biology, 30% psychology and 20% sport should have a mutliple choice exam.

If they don’t want to take a subject that involves written work, they shouldn’t actively choose to study GCSE PE.

TeenDivided · 24/04/2024 08:16

Simonjt · 24/04/2024 05:57

So a course that is essentially 50% human biology, 30% psychology and 20% sport should have a mutliple choice exam.

If they don’t want to take a subject that involves written work, they shouldn’t actively choose to study GCSE PE.

The problem is that all GCSEs require a solid amount of written work, and (due to progress 8?) fewer schools now offer BTECs which are at least assessed on smaller pieces of work. The exam system isn't set up for those that know and understand and can do, but who can't write down.

arethereanyleftatall · 24/04/2024 12:27

'The exam system isn't set up for those that know and understand and can do, but who can't write down.' @TeenDivided

But isn't there good reason for that? Being able to communicate your knowledge is a massive part of it. What value are you to an employer if you know everything but can't communicate it?

TeenDivided · 24/04/2024 14:05

arethereanyleftatall · 24/04/2024 12:27

'The exam system isn't set up for those that know and understand and can do, but who can't write down.' @TeenDivided

But isn't there good reason for that? Being able to communicate your knowledge is a massive part of it. What value are you to an employer if you know everything but can't communicate it?

Communication isn't just by written, it can be verbal or by showing, and various jobs just need you to do it well, writing mega essays isn't important.

Exams test what they test. They mainly test by written work as that is the easiest and cheapest way to examine. However there are lots of needed skills that aren't tested by GCSEs. Unfortunately GCSEs are the often the gateway to next steps.

arethereanyleftatall · 24/04/2024 14:20

@TeenDivided
So you can show those skills in an apprenticeship after GCSEs. GCSEs are objectively a fairly basic academic standard that it's a reasonable ask that everyone does. After that by all means branch off in to your skill set and your best way of working.

Because otherwise where does all this end? Everyone helped in the area they struggle in to the point that every single person has an A? What's the point in that? How do employers differentiate?

TeenDivided · 24/04/2024 14:25

arethereanyleftatall · 24/04/2024 14:20

@TeenDivided
So you can show those skills in an apprenticeship after GCSEs. GCSEs are objectively a fairly basic academic standard that it's a reasonable ask that everyone does. After that by all means branch off in to your skill set and your best way of working.

Because otherwise where does all this end? Everyone helped in the area they struggle in to the point that every single person has an A? What's the point in that? How do employers differentiate?

  1. If you can even get an apprenticeship without your GCSE maths and English.
  2. Grading on a curve means about 1/3rd are pre-destined to fail GCSE maths and english before they even sit the exams
  3. Have, and fund to teach, some alternative qualifications for such as BTECs for those for whom writing is hard. So they can show what they can do.
  4. Allow lower ability pupils to do Functional Skills Level 2 English and Maths at school, which are based around skills needed in the workplace.