Vat Question????????

[Anoth]

Can I ask a silly question??
We have been given our school fees for 24/25 academic year now for the school my daughter attends.
My question is if labours policy comes in half way through an academic year will the schools be allowed to put the fees up for the remainder of that academic year? Eg if we start paying X amount on September and then labour get in and introduce the added vat in October. Will the fees go up in Jan of that academic year? Normally fees remain un changed for the whole of the academic year once fees have been published but I understand this is a strange situation!
Just wanted to know if I need to prepare to save more for 24/25 fees just in case or will these that are now published still remain until the end of July 25??.
Thanks!

With nursery fees - aren’t the 15 free hours from 3 the “education” part (nominally) and the rest childcare? I don’t see why nurseries would change. Universities more tricky.

Almost certainly. It’s what we’d be doing if our kids were 11. Fortunately we’re in the last 2 years so will just have to find the money somehow.

I do wonder if it will apply to SEN schools. Two of my friends kids go to specialist schools and are doing well after having an awful time in the state option - hopefully that will be exempt.

OP, our school has announced its intention to phase in the increase over 3 years. By which I assume they mean reduce their fee in year 1 such that their fee plus VAT adds up to an amount 7% or so higher than the prior year. So their fee take will reduce somewhat (and I assume they are looking at all areas to reclaim eg furniture purchases and whatnot)

It. Won't. Happen.

Or they’ll temporarily rent to get into catchment. I know someone who did this to get into grammar this year. They were planning to go private.

There was a mum on the secondary education board recently complaining that the catchment of her preferred school in St Albans had shrunk and lots of people who thought they were in were now out. If these catchments stay shrunk then it will not just be the houses in catchment going up in price, those now out of it might well go down!

Or they’ll temporarily rent to get into catchment. I know someone who did this to get into grammar this year.

This is generally considered fraud, if they have another address, so if it came to light your friend may find her grammar place disappears.

It’s not a friend. I don’t know the full details. I seem to remember reading something about it depending on which LEA you fall under, and whether or not you actually live there/have another property. I have to say it’s not something I’d even consider, but people do. It’s a bit like some people going to church for a few years before they apply to a faith school, just to get a tick in the box. This is why there is great inequality and unfairness in the state system.

The catchment for our nearest grammar has shrunk for the last 2/3 years running. It’s getting smaller every year. That will only get worse as more people shift across from the private sector at 11. Grammar heads are already warning about the effects.

Going to church for a few years is meeting the criteria of the church school and is an option available to anyone, regardless of wealth. Doesn’t matter what is in your heart, if it meets the criteria.

Temporary renting may not meet the criteria and can involve a place being removed.

(Many areas don’t have grammar schools so this is unlikely to be a very common move by private school parents)

VAT is charged at point of payment not point of use. If you are willing to pay up front rather than just depositing a sum with the school for future use then based on all existing VAT rules you absolutely could avoid paying VAT on that sum. I’ve already discussed this option with the school our DS will be attending.

of course. Except in cases where the legislation has an amendment to stop schools from using that loophole.
It’s almost as if people are sick to death of the privileged take the piss all the time…

I really hope you are right but in a honesty I'm starting to think that they already know it won't raise much money, and in fact will probably end up costing money, but they will stick to it just to say they did it.
The Leadership are definitely digging their heels in at the moment even though several potential candidates and back benchers have admitted off record that they don't agree with it.
As with all their policies, once they have to actually start explaining the details and cost Vs benefit I hope that they u-turn.

You clearly have no knowledge of what the circumstances are for the average private school child. For a start their parents pay more tax than the average family. I’m not sure how that equates to being “privileged and taking the piss”.

As one poster above stated, every single SAHM is as privileged as a 2 income family who fund private school. A second parent working in a minimum wage job could easily fund a private education for their child.

Outstanding state school near me does allow renting provided you are there from submitting your form to first day of term, so almost a year.
So despite the catchment being around .25 of a mile, a lot of parents drive!

Many areas don’t have grammar schools so this is unlikely to be a very common move by private school parents

But they do have ‘good’ schools and ‘bad’ ones.

Yep taking the piss by already being a higher rate tax payer.

Good schools tend to be well run with a stable teaching staff that are supported by both management and a supportive parent group. They are by definition usually socially exclusive in some way or another. The parent group need not be rich but they need to be supportive and educationally ambitious for their children. As soon as the balance tips and you have too many problem families (those who don’t read with their children when young or don’t support education or homework and are out to fight the school) then usually the school gets worse, staff leave, results drop.
That is why people pay, tutor for grammar, go to church, buy in an expensive catchment. In London we have schools full of Fsm kids but with ambitious immigrant parents and strict rules. These schools do well as problem families avoid them because they are not up for the discipline required.

Of course, this isn’t news. But I was replying to a post about grammar schools.

It won't happen! It won't be their fault that it doesn't happen, of course. House of Lords, unintended consequences, etc etc. And there will possibly some fluffing of a 1% VAT rate, or something.

But realistically, it won't happen.

I suspect it will happen to appease the private school haters. It will in time affect public schools with catchments driving out mid/lower income families. It’s my money to spend how I want so if they put it on private school fees then it should apply to music lessons etc.

Hmmm I think it will, and so does my accountant.
I'll give up my job and homeschool though. I moved my dc from state as it wasn't working out for various reasons. They now go to a small independent school, I won't move my eldest (but she only has one year left, and can go to state 6th form) but I'll move my youngest, and I'll be out of work for a few years. So the vat the gov makes on 1 year of fees, will be wiped out by me being out of work and not paying tax for a few years, and of course there are no guarantees that'll I'll be able to build my business again so potentially that's me now out of employment for the next 20 yrs! I know other parents who will be doing similar. I can't help thinking that it will cost the government more money than making money, but time will tell.

I will quote my earlier post.

*It won't happen! It won't be their fault that it doesn't happen, of course. House of Lords, unintended consequences, etc etc. And there will possibly some fluffing of a 1% VAT rate, or something.

But realistically, it won't happen.*

Will giving up your job to home school really be cheaper than paying increased fees though? How much were you earning, it wouldn't have to be much for that to not make financial sense?

Somebody, at some point, is going to make Labour see the soft power of UK private schools.

Honestly people, it won't happen.