School trip based on attendance

[OneCoolMintMember]

Is it right that a school can stop children going on a school trip because of low attendance? Each time medical evidence has been provided. Had 5 days off since September but now not allowed on trip.

Absolutely disagree with this and needs pushing back. 'Rewards work' is such short term thinking. It is teaching kids to not take their mental and physical health seriously, sick days are simply necessary for some. Why would they think it is okay to punish them for it by excluding them. So wrong. 'You are ill, tough, suck it up, or no trip for you!' Madness.

That’s weird if it’s a general trip. Attendance shouldn’t be an issue.

However my DDs secondary school have reward trips based on attendance and good behaviour. The children that really want to go do everything in their power to collect the rewards but I’d say most are not fussed.

I think schools should treat sicknesses and illness differently to general absense - especially if you’ve provided a letter, I’m always so shocked at how having to take out a few days due to generally being sick is “punished” by lowering attendance rate.

I would be beyond furious about this. But then I have the kid who had attendance of 11% one term because she’d spent the rest of her time having chemo / radiotherapy. That 11% actually represented a huge effort on her part to get into school. She is highly unlikely to ever manage 100% attendance because she has so many follow up appointments and long term health problems after her treatment. I would be so angry if she was further excluded from school activities and if she was effectively punished further for having had cancer.

Thinking the same

Ofsted won’t punish schools for having exceptions for children medical issues so that they don’t end up being discriminatory.

This would piss me off
not a trip but in primary my ds missed out on a reward because he didn’t get 100% attendance. He missed three days because of the school’s 48 hours d&v policy (he was fine after a few hours), having caught the bug at school. How is that his fault?

It's against "unauthorised " attendance though, not "authorised "- so medical appointments/ health issues shouldn't make a difference?
If that was the case, that would be VERY different! That would mean the only ones penalised would be those taking term-time holidays and not those with medical issues. Although parental neglect could come into play unless the school chose to turn a blind eye to that for the purpose of the trip.
But the OP said her DC’s absence was due to illness - that’s authorised, surely? The school are very unlikely to outright say that a parent has fabricated an illness. That’s one hell of an accusation.

You clearly don't see why schools do this.

Ofsted punish schools for poor attendance.

They don't care if kids are sick.

They don't care if SEN children are off more or are young carers.

They only care about statistics compared to national average. And ask why is attendance like this? What are you doing to improve attendance? How to you reward the good attenders? They do NOT care about context.

So stop bashing schools that are only doing what they have to, to not be downgraded. It shows a real lack of understanding of the education system.

No, not all schools do this, it's not compulsory.

You can't discriminate against children with disabilities and medical conditions and blame ofsted. I'm very critical of ofsted on this, but it's not ok for children with disabilities or SEN to be the ones tossed aside to satisfy them. That's bullshit.

Is there evidence that this even helps attendance?

My child’s health and happiness is the priority, not the school’s Ofsted rating.

That's so unfair for kids who are sickly, have ND or MH issues

I would love to see a properly mounted legal challenge to such a policy.

Neither school rules nor an Ofsted rating trumps the law of the land and a rewards trip which doesn't make exceptions for DCs with chronic medical conditions potentially infringes the 2010 Equality Act and would therefore constitute disability discrimination.

I exactly why schools do this @icantwaitforsummer but there are ways round it which would still satisfy Ofsted. Some schools mange to do this perfectly well so the ones that can't be arsed need to do better.

Schools often back down when challenged on this before it gets anywhere near that.

I probably sound like a pain, but I’ve challenged two of DD2’s schools three times. Twice over trips and once over an attendance rewards scheme where the top prizes were year long memberships to a leisure park, a theme park and a two night trip away.

Both schools backed down (and the second school backed down the second time with a different HT) at the first time I wrote (working in schools I know how things can be handled very different if they have an actual letter) to them asking for the details of their special exemption from the disability discrimination act as as far as I could see there were no applicable exemptions.

One Ht was pissed off. The other two were actually embarrassed and both have had adapted awards and the likes ever since.

Good on you for doing all of this!! Schools need to be challenged on policies like these

It’s Bat shit. So are we encouraging children to go in school ill. what about children with medical conditions or who have just had a period of being unwell.

I'm very unconventional with my thinking but the system just doesn't work.. Mental health issues in children are rising exponentially and with no support through the NHS for mental health problems, alot of those children suffer in silence.

My daughters SEN.. She struggles with anxiety and she will struggle in secondary. She has suicidal thoughts and was offered 6 sessions of cbt even after multiple trips to A&E and being assessed 3 times by the crisis team.

She starts secondary school in September and if it isn't working for her within 1 year (working with the school to enable she can access the curriculum) then I will remove her from the education system.

No ifs, no buts... If it isn't working and her mental health declines even further then I'll remove and either go travelling with her and show her the world or I'll look into private tuition.

We don't have to stay on the merry go round of the broken education system.

Bullshit.
I've been a teacher.
I know how it works and even if that was the case that somehow attendance is massively important to OFSTED or parents (which it isn't) it's perfectly right not to just tug our forelocks and challenge discrimination when we see it.
(Makes the world a better place see)

Love this. Hoping I have the energy and optimism to do this at some point.
All the best for your daughter, it sounds very tough, hope things get easier for her.

I think it helps that I worked in schools for nearly 20 years. So I know what can and can’t be done and I can be confident when I say “Ofsted won’t punish you for including a child with a 2 month hospital stay on a trip… so why not?”

@sittingingold how many Ofsted inspections have you sat with inspectors with them asking why school attendance is a particular percentage? I'm guessing none.

The fact that you think Ofsted don't care about attendance is actually laughable. Having been through many an Ofsted inspection they do not look at context, they don't want to see how many absences are actually hospital appointments, funerals, anxiety, covid.

They just see statistics and if it isn't what the national average is they see it as a problem.

Even in the first call they do with senior leaders the day before the inspections they ask what is the school attendance figure is and that potentially opens a line of enquiry.

If a student has less than 90% attendance they are labelled a persistent absentee. There isn't a clause that says "but their parent is terminally ill, or a grandparent died and they attended the funerals in X country. Or they have constant scans in London which they can't move". They do not care.

Schools do not mind if absence is slightly low, we understand and fully support families, for anxiety and funerals and medical appointments etc. But we still have to jump through many hoops to get attendance up. So in my school we give reward vouchers and do reward trips and try everything we can to get students to come in when they have a cold. Because Ofsted care. And if we go down to RI, parents care.

We get constant emails from the DFE "how to raise attendance", "motivation for attendance", "rewards for attendance", "be stricter with attendance", "zero tolerance for poor attendance". It's constant.

We aren't even allowed to cut students slack when they couldn't get to school because of train strikes, it's completely unfair.

@icantwaitforsummer we seem to agree?
It's true, I was never leadership so have never had to explain to OFSTED why the attendance number are what they are.
Strong leaders need to push back on OFSTED, I don't think throwing disadvantaged or disabled children under the bus is the right way to go about this. And it doesn't work.

But equally @icantwaitforsummer parents with disabled or chronically ill DCs don't care what Ofsted requirements are. I couldn't give a monkey's what pressure a school is under quite frankly. I cared only that my disabled DCs weren't being illegally discriminated against.

Ofsted regulations do not trump the 2010 Equality Act. Schools need to constantly push back against Ofsted if they think they are being unreasonable, otherwise they are just part of the problem as far as parents are concerned.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings you don't sound like a pain at all, quite the opposite in fact. My DCs are some way beyond school age now, but I too challenged their schools when necessary. And I agree with you that schools do back down when confronted with the possibility that they are acting illegally, that was my experience too.

Yes, I'm sorry this does happen. It happens at the school where I work and I absolutely HATE it. I think it's very wrong.
I have some kids who work extremely hard and are very well behaved but will not go on the trip because they don't have 100% attendance.
I hate what we are doing to kids. It's bribery.

''Some kids will attend school every day but it is their social life, they spend the day disrupting classes and then are rewarded by a trip.''

Couldn't agree more.

In fact, it's more than bribery. It's discrimination!

But they also probably wouldn't get to go on a rewards trip. at least youd hope not