State schools around me are locking toilets for students

[MyopicBunny]

Has anyone else heard of this happening? The students are told that they may only use the bathrooms at set times. The rest of the time they lock them. Apparently, this is Rishi Sunak's idea to help improve attendance to lessons. I think it's an abuse of human rights. Nobody should be stopped from going to the loo. Imagine a girl who needed to go urgently because her period started or a student with IBS?

I think it's completely batshit. It doesn't affect my children because one is at nursery and the other HE.

The real issue is behaviour and lack of respect. Schools can issue 45 suspensions a year for a student who misbehaves but a permenant exclusion is very hard to get to. A student cannot be sanctioned for behaviour that might be as a result of a disability or SEN need. There are too many students in mainstream schools with severe SEN needs or from disadvantaged backgrounds who's needs ren't being met because the schools aren't able to. Especially those with social, emotional or mental health needs. Schools cannot cope and this is leading to deteriorating behaviour because then all the generally ok kids see other kids getting away with it and push the boundaries further. Not to mention the shift in culture that parents don't want to be unpopular with their kids so too many kids with fewer boundaries sthan ever, up all night with phones in their room, access to sites like Tim Toc and Snapchat at primary school, unfiltered Internet access etc.

At my last school there was a class which was meant to be for students who weren't secondary ready to try and catch them up and ease them into mainstream. It was horrendous, no one was able to keep the students in one room. Many of them really needed and ECHP and one to one but with 3 year waiting lists and no supports staff (because they were all made redundant 5 years ago) it was chaos. Several of the students were completely defiant and used to run around the site all day long. It was totally normal to be teaching and see children run past the window with slt chasing them. This was just the tip of the iceberg. Behaviour and engagement were poor, parents were largely unsupportive of any sanctions so kids just refused to attend detentions and there was little the school could do about it. Staff worked tirelessly, trying to put support in place for families. We ran a food bank, huge numbers of children had early help or team around the family support plans but many who needed the same were overlooked due to lack of resources and staff. Everyone was overworked, recruitment was appalling and students were being taught core gcse subjects in enormous groups or by non specialists.

I left because it was that or give up teaching. The answer is proper funding for schools, better funding for SEN support across the board, more places in special schools (we had students who were sent to mainstream because the specialist schools couldn't meet their needs) and better funding for things like surestart to support families from disadvantaged backgrounds earlier on. Basically the end of austerity.

This.

one of DH’s students downed a bottle of vodka when she “desperately” needed the toilet because of “her period” and it being her “human right” and ended up having her stomach pumped. DH was very fucking stressed because guess who would get the blame!

It's baberic to deny access to toilets.
I've never heard of half the stuff that's supposed to be happening there.

And no amount of bullying, shit smearing or blockages can jjustify locked toilets.

I mean if you gotta go, you just have to go. There isn't an on / off switch for bodily functions.

@MyopicBunny

I'd be ok with searching bags. Much better than making kids bleed over themselves or piss themselves.

Who would search the bags?
Would they search on entry to school? There are 1450 kids at mine.

Or search at toilets? Vapes are kept in pockets or in bras. What do we do then?

Honestly, there is no solution here that's workable to keep parents happy and the school safe.

No, your children DO NOT need to be plugged into water at all times. Perhaps train them to self monitor and bladder train themselves. In the workplace, as adults, can we go to the toilet whenever we feel like it? Train drivers, bank clerks, GP's etc? It all takes bladder discipline.

We cannot exclude kids for attacking staff and other pupils. We certainly won't get them excluded for damaging property or vaping.

It's such a tricky situation. It's awful for staff at schools and awful for genuine pupils but as parents, we must start teaching our children to be body aware when they get to secondary.

And no, I am NOT talking about those children with passes for genuine medical need.

So what do you suggest we do? Before we started locking them there was flooding every day. There was vandalism every day. Vapes and alcohol consumed. Bullying and assault.

Toilet rolls constantly and I means constantly put in the sink and soaked. Seats ripped off. Tiles smashed and taps removed.

If none of what’s discussed justifies locking the toilets then what do you suggest as an alternative? Genuine question.

Vapes are kept in bras and knickers at out school.

. I have a 20 year old who doesn't drink, smoke or anything else.

What a worry for you.

How would you deal with the issues then?

Ha!

Sure you know this but I had same problems and was only told after YEARS about this https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/tranexamic-acid/about-tranexamic-acid/

Oh well if your children are well behaved, ignoring the fact that one of your (two?) children is still at nursery so hasn’t really had the chance to be badly behaved, then that definitely means that most children are…

It’s (a varying number of) other teens ruining it for the rest of the school that is the problem here. Not the teachers.

Well that really added to the discussion 🥱

I remember being at school with an awful tyrant of
a French teacher .
he wouldn’t let you go to the toilet . I had my period as a 12 year old and bled though my skirt . It was the lost embarrassing and humiliating experience of my
life . To this day and I’m 47 now .
il never get over it .

I’m sure we would have no parents on the front page of the local newspaper with a sad/cross face outraged at ‘what the world has come to’, if schools employed staff to search pupils’ underwear each morning!

What do people want teachers to actually do with no extra money? If we can’t search children, can’t raise our voices and can’t exclude, detentions are about all that’s left.

If that is the case, we have to homeschool. My child needs toileting, is sensitive and won't thrive in a prison environment such this plus apparently abusive kids are tolerated in these schools. That is despicable. I never had this in my own school growing up abroad.

All new secondary schools that are built need toilets off the classrooms like the primary school classrooms I have worked in. Two cubicles, teacher knows who's in them, no 'meeting up' in toilets, no wandering round the school, no vandalism and if so should be obvious who the culprit is, less disruption as it won't be 'fun' any more. Then toilet blocks could open at lunchtime only and be supervised.

It’s (a varying number of) other teens ruining it for the rest of the school that is the problem here. Not the teachers.

I understand this but locking toilets routinely and letting children end up covered in blood isn't acceptable. It just isn't. It's treating children like animals.

Also I don't think I ever said this was the fault of teachers. But that's not the point is it. The problems are higher up. And clearly go all the way to central government.

Yes, great idea.

So it's purposefully hidden from parents and prospective pupils parents? I guess that's why none of us knew the extent of it till we read it 10 minutes ago here.

I just asked my 14yr old. He said the toilets are fine, clean and quiet. No bullying, no mess, no vandalism, nothing broken, he doesn't feel anxious going there.

It's a regular secondary school with a large amount of PP pupils, area of very high deprivation.

Clearly some schools just have it really bad then.

Lots and lots of schools. It's good that your son's school isn't like that. I live in a pretty nice area. I don't know a comprehensive school for miles around that isn't having these kinds of problems, nor in other areas where I used to live, and where I still have friends who teach.

Of course schools don't tell parents the bad stuff that goes on unless they absolutely have to. Schools are (unfortunately) businesses. In order to remain financially viable and therefore be able to provide teachers etc, they need to keep their numbers up. School newsletters etc are full of all the achievements and good news. Not the vandalism and bullying. This is part of the problem. Parents would be shocked if they could be a fly on the wall in most schools.

It's not to do with government. At least not directly.

Indirectly:

• curriculum is insane and students are struggling
• learning isn't related to their lives
• family support systems have been dismantled or funding slashed eg. Surestart, CAMHS, social services
• SEND support is slow at best

But way more importantly:

• some teens aren't used to discipline outside of school
• parents often don't back up school
• social media and tech are eroding attention spans

That first bit is untrue.

I worked somewhere where CCTV had to be installed near the ladies toilets because someone kept smearing poop on the walls.

This was the head office of a UK household name company. Apparently it's not that uncommon...

Yes I understand private schools have issues too, but I’ve figured we have a better chance there rather than being at the mercy of the state. I live in an area where there is literally no point applying for any secondary except our catchment school, and the behaviour at our catchment school is horrific, so we’ll do anything we can to avoid it.

"Train drivers, bank clerks, GP's etc?.."

But those of us with bowel or bladder issues wouldn't take a job doing that. I wouldn't even take a job that required meetings as my bowels can't cope sitting for long and not being anbke to go when I like. Teens are stuck in a school and some of them will have the same issues brewing.

Parents would be shocked if they could be a fly on the wall in most schools

l think this.