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"Where does the sun come from?" ... is there is a good site to help me explain stuff like this to my 4 year old?

61 replies

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 08:01

I do KIND of know...I think...but he is asking this stuff all the time.

Oh I want a sciencey explaination not a relgiious one!

Thoughts?

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Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 09:22

oh the dr universe site is REALLY good, he loves it

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ScienceTeacher · 24/03/2008 09:25

Well, if you don't want to 'patronise' your 4 year old, you'll need to read up on quantum mechanics and string theory

Blandmum · 24/03/2008 09:25

Something good to read, or to listen to is the Bill Bryson book on science. We've been listening to it in the car and my two have enjoyed bits of it

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 09:27

ok i think a went a little far with the patronising thing in the post further down, but you know, we don't know why there is life on earth. we don't really know how it formed. there are theories, sure, but we really really don't know. and there is certainly weak evidence that would not rule out life on some other parts of the solar system (one of saturns moons, can't remember which, underground ice, very small).

we don't know much, and with most things, any reasonably bright 4 year old is going to get to the limits of our knowlege pretty fast. they want to know where what we know ends, i think.

sorky i do hope ds gets that interested, it is all very fun and so much more interesting than bloody plants...

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ScienceTeacher · 24/03/2008 09:29

A brief history of just about everything - excellent book, written in Bill Bryson's unique way.

Slubberdegullion · 24/03/2008 09:29

ooh good links from slur. Thank you.

dd1 asked at at breakfast the other day
"Mummy, what is fog"?

to which I answered

"well my darling fog is........"

wtf is fog? kind of heavy duty mist?

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 09:30

I KNOW about quantum mechanics and string theory, at least the basics, that ISN'T the problem

I want a site to explain it clearly to ds. I often find that other people are better at explaiing certain things ver cleatly. my brother demonstrated the bernoulli effect to ds yesterday with a spoon and some water. that kind of thing.

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sorkycake · 24/03/2008 09:30

Dh is going to type something for you when he wakes up properly, be a few minutes tho', if that's okay, unless you want him to email you.

He was saying something about general relativity...he'll be here in a bit.

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 09:33

that would be great sorky, thanks! (either email or here)

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slim22 · 24/03/2008 09:34

Great links!

we get that a lot with DS 4 too.

Now what do you reply to

  • who's/where's God? ( I'm no believer so tough one)
  • who made us/trees etc...where does and that come from??

And of course WHY? at the end of each attempt to explain.

pruners · 24/03/2008 09:36

Message withdrawn

pruners · 24/03/2008 09:41

Message withdrawn

Blandmum · 24/03/2008 09:43

For those intersted in this sort of thing it is worth looking at the work of Rosalind Driver. She did masses of reserch on childrens misconceptions of how the world works in terms of science. the misconceptions are very well embeded and tend to cross cultures etc.

Facinating stuff

sorkycake · 24/03/2008 09:56

Have found this Filly whilst waiting for Dh, any good?

S1ur · 24/03/2008 10:55

the science guy is funny, american scientist. More for older kids but has some science at home practicals to do. And some answers to Big Questions.

possibly good but you have to subscribe

general sci stuff with games

experiments

more experiments to do

new scientist and
this are useful but more adult.

sea and sky more for secondary age kids

found this but don't know what its like

and finally this is about how science devevlops, how people make mistakes and had weird ideas along the way.

phew.

sorkycake · 24/03/2008 11:02

Hello Fillyjonk, my wife has asked me to write down how we explained questions about the sun to our daughter

This is the explanation we gave to Indy:

We think the big bang happened because if we look through telescopes that all the galaxies we can see are moving away from each other. As we know that they don't just stop or change direction, it should be valid to trace their path back to find out where they were in the past. if we do this it turns out that all the matter in the universe was at the same place at some point in the distant past.

The obvious questions about this theory "what happened before the big bang?" and "what did the universe expand into?" are really founded on our intuitions about how things work based on the world around us.
General relativity shows us that time and space are intimately bound up with matter, and aren't the static backdrop we expect them to be from everyday experience.
So really those questions don't make sense, time and space (as we know it at least) were created alongside all the matter in the big bang.

Stars are formed from clouds of hydrogen and helium gas out in space under the influence of gravity. Gravity pulls the gas together, until it gets so dense and hot that nuclear fusion can take place.
I think I described the sun as "a big ball of gas on fire" which I think is reasonably accurate (the "fire" obviously isn't fire as we know it which needs oxygen etc, but that's a distinction I'm leaving till later), and something a 4 year old can easily visualise.

Stars originally formed as the early universe cooled and became nonuniform (lumpy) - the denser parts gradually became more dense, and formed the stellar nurseries where stars were created.
The picture I have in my head here is imagine you are holding a sheet taut and horizontally, now imagine you somehow place lots of marbles closely but equally spaced in a grid on the sheet. If the spacing was exact, then nothing would happen, but any small inaccuracies would mean that two marbles would roll together, which would then pull the sheet down, and surrounding marbles would then be drawn in, and what you would end up with is dense clumps of marbles being formed.
And stars are still being formed in the same way in nebulae today.

One useful link to everyday life is that any elements other than hydrogen and helium were originally formed in the heart of a star, and anything more dense than iron was formed in supernova. I explained to her that the gold in my wedding ring would've originally been formed in a supernova.
hth
There is a useful, but old, book we have called Frozen Star by George Greenstein, which explains about stars, black holes and pulsars.

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 17:15

i have 2 minutes here, will come back and follow links but

thank you so much mr sorky, thats an example of how i want to be able to answer him! brilliant! will talk him through it later.

slur + sorky, again, fabulous links!

I read r driver ooooh years ago, (my mother is a teacher) very interesting stuff about common basic mistakes about science made by primary school teachers iirc. also pretty readable. anyone interested in this sort of thing, def give her stuff a look.

right shall return (chaos here atm)

have looked through our books today, for some reason we are heavy on experiment type books (usborne etc) but few explainationy type stuff.

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Blandmum · 24/03/2008 17:20

Driver isn't just looking at mistakes that primary teachers make, but also children of all ages and college students.

Twiglett · 24/03/2008 17:22

No, no the important thing to teach 4 year olds is it's all to do with magic and sprites and pictsies

ScienceTeacher · 24/03/2008 17:24

I think the Driver book I have is called 'Making Sense of Secondary Science'. I must hunt it out and look at it again. ISTR that she focussed on misconcepions about electricity, and also about the shape of the earth.

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 17:24

oh probably, I've only read one of her books-I think she's written a few? Anyway, I agree she's worth a look.

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Blandmum · 24/03/2008 17:25

Only if you pay to send them to a Steiner School.......

Fillyjonk · 24/03/2008 17:26

whats a pictsie, twigg?

I have read childrens ideas in science I think though couldn't swear to it-it wasn't the secondary school kids one.

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Blandmum · 24/03/2008 17:32

I've got a different Driver to that one Filly, Mine concentrates on Secondary science, but does give information on primary school kids as well It coveres a variety of topics in Bio, Chem and phys

Twiglett · 24/03/2008 17:34

'pictsie' ... see Terry Pratchett's version of pixies