Help, 11+ tutor says ds COULD pass IF he made some effort but he isn't trying hard enough

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And ds admits he 'just couldn't be arsed' to try very hard on the practice paper homework he had to do for his tutor in the week. The tutor says he 'knows kids' and 'boys in particular' and the main issue is ds's engagement and lack of effort, he does think he's bright enough to potentially pass IF he works and tries harder.

How can I make him? Or can't I? Every bloody time he has to do these practice papers he throws an almight strop, cries, kicks off and it's a major PITA.

If he doesn't get into local grammar the alternatives are A) other local, in special measures, over my dead body B) we pay, which we could prob afford to do, given that dd goes to school in Sept (i.e. we could divert the amount that's been paying for nursery, which would cover it) but I really don't want to.

Any and all advice appreciated. I don't really knwo how to get him to work harder.

He doesn't get much homework at school, once a week for about an hour, so it's not as if he's over bloody worked imo. TIA for any words of wisdom.

My son was very bright and competitive at primary school, always wanting to do well in tests. There were a couple of boys in his class also on the same level and they seemed to revel in trying to be the best (and usually were). The teachers there told me that my son had the ability to pass the 11+ and we therefore encouraged it by engaging a tutor to coach him with the 11+ papers. My son passed the 11+ and went to his chosen Grammar School. He is now in Year 13 (upper sixth) and I can honestly say it was very probably the wrong decision. Not only did my son have a shock when he realised that he was now just an "average" boy, and that he could not compete with some of the very intelligent boys, but I'm afraid he just gave up. He has coasted through nearly 7 years of Grammar School doing as little as possible (he became very lazy). His GCSE results were good but not spectacular (3 As, 3 Bs, 4 Cs). He will be sitting A levels this summer in the hope that he will go on to University, however so far, no revision has taken place, nor is likely to. By contrast, his younger sister did not take the 11+, went to the local comprehensive and absolutely loves it. She is doing well, has lots of (local) friends and is expected to do well in her GCSEs next year (she will probably not get brilliant results but at least she's trying!). Also, a friend of my son's did not pass the 11+, went to the comprehensive and has done very well there. Through encouragement and sheer hard work, this friend got 10 GCSEs all at A* and A grades and tbh, this friend is not that bright and intelligent, just hard work and determination encouraged by the teachers praise and support.

If I could turn the clock back, I would wish that my son had stayed with his friends and gone to the local comprehensive, where I think his competitive nature would have continued with the right encouragement. I have always felt that the Grammar School was too critical of his efforts and instead of making him try harder, he has felt that nothing he did would be good enough, therefore what was the point. Every school report we have had listed all the things he needs to do to improve, not the things he has done well. Every marked piece of work has red pen all over it, with every spelling and grammar mistake highlighted in red pen. What it has done to his self-esteem and confidence is heartbreaking. I tried to get him to leave at the end of year 11, but he decided to stay there to do A levels because he didn't want to go through the "new boy" syndrome again. However he will have to leave this summer and I am counting the days.

Good luck.

This is what I have always thought dippymother, getting into Grammar School is not the be all and end all, it is the start. If a DC doesn't even want to put in the work to get there then it tells you that they probably are not suited to it. I would only want a DC at Grammar School if I knew that they were going to sail through without tutors and endless practise papers.

Dippymother, your son's story is almost EXACTLY the same as my son!! However he transferred to the local comprehensive at A level (didnt get the points to get into sixth form at the grammar school, so not really by choice) but they loved him at the new school, still did hardly any work by most people's standards but got A,B,B at A level and is now at university and loves it. So there is hope. Always wondered if he would have been better off at comprehensive in the first place but might have done even less work there and might have come out with worse results, you will never know. Also to OP he didnt particularly like practising for the test either (wasnt tutored) but when it came to the actual test, pulled out all the stops just to prove a point I think, and passed. If your local comprehensive is good, I would think very seriously about sending him there instead although he will have to keep up the hard work continually there to stay in the 'top sets' or whatever, in a way more competitive than at a grammar school where they are all more 'equal' in their abilities.

thank you. I've only just seen these newer posts and they're making me wring my hands tbh. But the local other school is TRULY shite, really. I honestly don't think he'd be happier there.

Gosh I agree with the poster who said that the 11+ is the most boring exam in the world - I would imagine that practising it is like watching paint dry

sympathies

Are there any other alternatives WWW? If the only other one is dreadful then tutoring is probably the only route to go down.

Could you move to somewhere with an acceptable local comp? I note from your other posts that you have a lengthy commute - is it worth it?

you have my v real sympathy www. whereabouts in uk are you? what is the competition like for grammar in your area? how competitive are the independent options?
i have just lived through ds1 doing 11+ exams for entry to highly competitive / selective independents in london..... he did it! but i honestly think a lot of it was my real determination that he would have the best shot at getting in..... i won't lie to you, it was HELL at times..... he is young for his year (july) and in some ways an inmmature 10 year old boy..... at a v unpressured primary school which planned on doing nothing to assist re 11+ exams. so perhaps not suprising there were tears and shouting and carrying on as we slogged our way through year of preparation. would recommend website called elevenplusexams.co.uk. v helpful and specialised advice. also shop where you can buy all the practice papers etc.
if you really want him to do this you have to be prepared to put in a whole lot of effort yourself.....it's true he has to comply and be cooperative to some extent but i dont believe all this "if he cant do it on his inherent ability without lots of work then its the wrong thing for him".... it is not a level playing field and a massive proportion of children are being tutored intensively for this whatever their inherent ability.
you need to devise a plan / timetable and stick to it through thick and thin... try toagree it with ds..... at easter a year ago ds was doing 30 mins a day..... by christmas hols he was doing 2 hours a day.... he was rewarded (modestly in kind) for effort and getting on with it.
you need to find out the maths curriculum tp be covered and get yourself up to speed (if your maths is as crap as mine) so you can help. for a lot of v selective schools the maths paper is pitched at a very high level.... you can download papers from a lot of independent school websites / get past papers to give you an idea.... they ofetn go beyond year 6 work.
good luck! if i can help anymore let me know on here / cat me?

WWW - Bond publish a book of 10 minute tests which are good for quick bursts of activity. They come in different levels so you can work up to the most complex questions gradually.

Would they be any good for your DS?

WWW, you've had loads of good advice here but I just want to pick up on one trend, which I think can be influenced by what sort of grammar school we are talking about...
I know of at least one child who was disinclined to put the work in to get the hang of the 11 plus exam's structure and approach...but this is not to do with intelligence or potential IMO. As MP said, the 11 plus is really boring and not representative of the fun your ds will have at grammar school.
This child was prodded through the coaching sessions, hugely inspired by the visit to the grammar school passed the exam and loves it.
Just because ds is playing the slacker card now, don't assume he is not grammar potential . Some grammars are uber-competitive league table toppers, others are more arguably rounded and fun places. They do vary considerably.

oh, and bond also do a "how to do 11+ maths" book which is good for working through with him to find out areas of strength / weakness / total ignorance

LOL - just read the thread and Roisin beat me to it

DD really enjoys doing them - for no particular purpose other than that they are good fun to do!

you have to view these exams as a hurdle to be cleared.... if you believe that he will flourish in the school you have your eye on.... no one ever needs non verbal reasoning skills as a specialist subject do they? i wonder why these schools dont just be more shameless and administer iq tests? in one n london grammar this year there were 2200 applicants for 80 places

Oh THANK YOU for these posts, I am going to get dh to read this thread tomorrow as he is equally worried, I do think we need to put our backs into it too, will go and order some 10 minutes tests in a minute. controlfreaky, thank you, good advice there and yes, I need to focus on it too, and ex dh also needs to come on board BIG time and support me and dh here, will send him a link to this thread too I think. It's good to hear from people who've been through it and come out the other side

Hallgerda, thank you but I commute to London and live in a very sweet bit of countryside so don't want to move, partly because poor ds has already moved London to Devon to Bristol to here and is on his third school because of it. I have promised the children we won't move place again (house maybe, but not area) so I can tolerate the commute, esp as I've just changed hours and upped the rate etc, plus it's only until Sept when I get to take 4 months off I hope!)

All the things you've all said here make sense and I really think it's the EFFORT/TIME/PRESSURE combo that's getting to him. So if we get these 10 min ones then we can concentrate on 1) technique THEN 2) speed THEN 3) 80 questions in 50 minutes iwth high degree of accuracy

ds is like me with a low boredom threshold so I do think 10 minute papers are the way to go

Looked online at local independents today and some have a whole day assessment so the problem would potentially be the same. I am also going to make appts to look around both schools in the next few weeks.

Thank you so much all of you, I've read all these posts and there's some fantastic advice here, I'm very grateful

2200? omg!

I should have added that although my son was very lazy and did underachieve to a certain extent at his grammar school (by their standards, not normal standards!) he did absolutely love it there....'best 5 years of my life' so you have to weigh up whether you want him to achieve the best academically, which bizarrely he MAY not do, for reasons outlined before by me and other poster, against his happiness...it is very hard for boys especially to cope with being 'bright' when up against other not so bright, but 'cooler' boys, and to keep up the 'brightness'. At least at a grammar school the peer pressure to 'dumb down' is not there. However, he still got pretty decent set of GCSES even without doing much work. Also he made some fab friends from day one who are still his best friends and are all absolutely delightful teenage boys now (really!) which is a huge bonus in these days of 'teenager bashing'. He is also at Russel group university, despite the endless protestations of grammar school of you won't get to xxxx without string of A*s etc which simply ISNT true unless you want to do medicine, law etc. If you can just persuade him to get down and just practice a bit, I am sure he will pass. It is really just down to knowing the types of questions and learning how to answer them really and being speedy, but as another poster said it isnt a fair playing field at all, but if he is bright and just learns the strategies needed he will be fine.

you've got me going now (mastermind specialist subject 11+ entry).... so tell me to shut up if you've had enough "advice" already....
the 10 minute tests are good as can do them anyplace anytime and make a change but i think your main foocus at this stage of the game should be on mastering all the skills needed.... then you can worry about timing / accuracy as the btime gets nearer.... priorities might be ensuring ds has the necessary maths skills.... (if he hasnt covered mean / median / range there's no point doing a 10 minute test with these ?'s), mastering the types of verbal and non verbal reasoning ?'s (bond do "how to do" books for these too but your tutor really should be givinbg specialist advice on what is needed in your area (diff areas set diff ? types for grammar school) and thinking about english skills (vocab / comprehension / story writing (again with ref to the exam requirements for the schools you are interested in.... no point doing endless stories if this isnt part of test.

see all possible school asap. remember just because a school is hugely oversubscribed you may hate it... trust your instincts and dont be cowed by fact it appears a sellers market at this stage....

oooh i feel for you. stay calm and carry on!
dont panic!

(low point for me was getting ds to try past paper for one of likelty schools during easter holidays "just to get an idea of where he waqs at" and he got about 20%.....)

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you are right to worry, but stop worrying and make a (cunning) plan.... see below!
as said, i think the exam is a hurdle... if your instinct is that grammar school is for your ds then you have to plan how you're going to clear it...

ps. you'd LURVE elvenplusexams forum coddy.... i keep almost posting sarcy mn style ripostes to people.. before remebering that a) they have NOOOOO sense of humour and b) have modersators who punce on any sarcasm / challenge saying "it's not in the spirit of the forum......" every 3 mins..... very dispiriting (but website actually helpful if you can get past this)

punce? punce?
POUNCE!

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