How do you spot a dyslexic child

[pupuce]

I wondered if someone could give me some pointers...

I read with kids at our school in year 2 and 3... and some can NOT put a word together.... I have raised it a few times and when I did so again yesterday saying that maybe they might be dyslexic I was told that "No! It's because they are never read to at home and are never exposed to books".... I am sure that is true in those particular cases but I read with them every week and so do others and they still don't really progress.... so I'd like to know a bit more before I go back and challenge this.

Thanks

vixnips totally agree.

www.dyslexia-australia.com.au/What%20they%20see.htm

It's the best example I can find as it is difficult to explain what I see. But may give more of an idea. so firstly from my own point of view.. you have to be able to sort out how you are going to actually read the text.. then you put into play your knowledge of how to read. then you read. You then re read to make sure you have read it right.. and often this may turn out to be different.. so you start again.
when your writing, you need to check it.. then the reading comes into play again!

I can only talk from my point of view and every dyslexic is different. I am not saying I am right.. but for the non dyslexics it may hopefully show what the dyslexic is actually achieving when they do read! and how frustrating the whole process can be. it's not just about learning what sounds make which parts of words.

That's very interesting vixnpips and obviously I completely appreciate that this is your experience. However, I would suggest that you are the exception and that most difficulties with reading are due to problems with phonological processing and are not primarily visual in nature. There has been quite a lot of research into this and visual problems have been discounted as a major cause of difficulties. E.g. a study where dyslexics and non-dyslexic children were asked to copy Hebrew letters which none had seem before. The dyslexics were no worse than the non-dyslexics at doing so. The research now very much focuses on phonological problems and how these cause difficulties with reading. The fact that children who are taught phonetics systematically then almost all learn to read suggests to me that this must play a major part.

The research suggests that there may be to be a small group of people who have some visual difficulties that cause problems. This is where the letter wobble about and this can be helped by visual overlays. Maybe you fall into that group?

Does the same apply to numbers neolara?
Because I have taught my son to read very well using synthetic phonics, yet I cannot at the moment overcome his sequencing problems (counting) and the reversal and mirror imaging of numbers

My son never crawled walked at 10 months, and took ages for reading to click. He reads phonetically but couldn't handle word recognition. MY DH was the same.DS can't spell even though he is extremely bright.We have a houseful of books and was always read to. My DD who would never sit still long enough to read to, just absorbed reading and taught herself to read.

If dyslexia doesn't exist why do MRI scans show dyslexics use different parts of their brains for reading.

I'm absolutely NOT saying that dyslexia does not exist. There is very clear that some children pick up reading almost without being taught and other children have very significant difficulties. You can test children and there is a high correlation between reading difficulties and difficulties with phonological processing. Most people working in the field now accept that phonological difficulties underpin children's difficulties learning to read. What I am saying is that with appropriate teaching virtually all children should be able to learn to read well.

I'm not up to date on the latest research on MRI scans and dyslexia but would be very interested to know what it says. I'm sure the next few years will give a great deal of insights.

As I understand it, there is not yet a theoretical framework for understanding why some children have problems with numbers. I suspect that there may be lots of different reasons (language problems, spatial difficulties, literacy problems - they can't read the questions etc) and some will apply to some children and some to others.

Ahhh the visual system.. well I have read some of the research..and to be honest there are arguments for both the Older school theories and for the newer (as such) theories.. ie language processing etc. ( my mum actually works in this area and often throw articles at me for consideration LOL)
I don't know is my answer, The hebrew / chinese symbol thing is not the best compasrison between how we read text in the western world.. they are two vary different things and so I can see why the results came out the way they did. These were symbols they were using i.e pictures.. rather than a collection of symbols laid down on an unnatural way to process. I wonder how many of the theories that have been discounted.. were done so by non dyslexics! and new theories are just theories until they get hard evidence and get discounted all the time when some one comes up with a new idea. I have no other difficulties visually or spacially other than reading "western text".. in fact I happen to work as a portrait artist.. and so am actually very dependent on how I "see" things for my income. Maybe I just "see things differently to others.. giving me my ability to do my job.. but just causing a few problems with reading "western text" ...so do I think differently too LOL.

I honestly think that no matter what theories come up.. because dyslexia is so different in each case there cannot be one cure.. and cure is a bad way of putting it. maybe the way we teach our children should be a little more flexable rather than trying to cure something that is just different? We don't try and cure the difference between blue eyes and brown? A lot of the way we educate is to try and fit everyone into the same box purely as it is easier to teach to the majority.. rather than saying this child would learn better this way.... so we keep finding reasons for drumming into our children there is something wrong with them for not making it easy for the education system!
hey we don't all fit in a box ;)
Mind you I am happy to have my brain scanned anytime to see how I think LOL.

Don't all children with reading problems deserve equal help. Whether it is dysteachia, dysparenting, glue ear, dyslexia or lack of intelligence causing the problem.

Diagnosing dyslexia is expensive and it doesn't solve the reading problem. £400 (the cost of an asssessment with a education pschocolgsist) could buy quite a few tutoring sessions with a synthetic phonics tutor like Mavarick.

But back to the point.. if you think your child is having problems.. discuss it with the school and keep on top of it.. keep it relaxed as you can at home..whislt supporting good reading basics and the enjoyment of books, art and general learning. It can be fun.

neolara you have made some valid points and I would love to discuss them in more depth.
and yes overlays can work well. I would be interested to know in which field you specialise.

Yes reallytired all children do deserve equal help.

Vixnpips, have you tried coloured overlays and if so, did they make a difference for you? I've had a go with them and for me it made a slight difference although I do not have any problems reading without them. My understanding of the principles of using overlays is that some people get a kind of visual stress from looking at small black and white print. It is not necessarily to do with having spatial difficulties. This might tie in with you having good enough spatial awareness to be an artist. (Your pictures are fantastic! I had a quick peek.) This visual stress only kicks in during certain specific situations (e.g. reading small print) so would not necessarily be triggered during your everyday life. There also seems to be a spectrum of how badly people are affected. Maybe I am at the barely affected end and you are severely affected? Or do you feel your visual problems are different to this?

In my pre-baby days I was an ed psych with a particular interest in early reading. More children got referred for literacy difficulties than anything else. It's always fascinating hearing about different people's experiences. There is a history of literacy difficulties in my family (I got sent to spelling lessons by my tutor when I was at university!) but for me there was a clear link to problems with phonological processing. Also, I think part of my identify as a school kid was built around doing well academically but being rubbish at spelling. Oh yes, and I never bothered to learn any spellings. Ever. I think, as with most things in life, problems are never simple. A child's life experiences, their biological make up, the way they are taught, the way they view themselves as learners and their levels of motivation all interact together to affect their performance in school. It's really fascinating.

Can I ask how these overlays work? As I'm a photographer is it like adding a filter to increase contrast or remove flare? Sorry to come back to me (me.me )

neolara, have you ever consulted a behavioural optometrist? A lot of people who find coloured overlays helpful can benefit from vision therapy as it is a way of correcting the visual stress at source, rather than relying on overlays.

Maverick, that Kindy eg is great, but why do they stick schwahs on the end of phonemes? Big gripe of mine. They do it on b and ch in that excerpt. I know it works though - dd(4) can work out frogs or Shrek for eg - I'm a bit manic about synthetic phonics as ds is dyslexic. Also interested in some of the time wasting activities - I use an arc of letters to teach with sometimes but use it as a sound board to build from. With 9/10 yo who should know alphabet order for looking in dictionary etc I don't see this as a waste of time (obv base it on sound not letter name) - could you explain please? Thanks.
Also with 1 girl, feeling letters showed her in 5 mins (at age 8) that h and n were formed differently. She now doesn't confuse them. I wouldn't say that it was a waste of time for her.

neolara I have tried some overlays and find that a cream or blue colour makes a little difference. But more importantly it tends to be the font, layout and font size that makes the most difference. Yes black on white is harder to read as I "see" more off the gaps than the print and it all tends to jump about more.
Thanks for having a sneaky peek and I'm glad you like my work. Interesting also to know where your coming from on this subject.

Ingles the overlays in my experience is a bit like the difference between concentrating on driving on a wet road in bright sunshine without sunnys on and with sunnys on for want of a better way of explaining. It makes a bit of a difference but there "glare is still there".
Personally I don't see myself as being badly affected, or I wouldn't have done the things I have. But maybe this is just attitude?? LOL ( I have lots of that! LOL)
My experiences at school was yes i'm rubbish at spelling and my handwriting is awful! But I tended to "sell" the stuff I was good at.. and so people tended to forgive the not so great qualities. Barring my english teacher who I still hate to this day, who wouldn't put me in for my english exams.. lucky to have cool parents who paid for me to do them as I needed them to go onto FE. I only took E language tho.. but passed with a "C" LOL!!!
Most of the time I hid ( still do) my bad spelling by flattening my handwriting up a bit.. as people actually read what there brain is expecting.. and so I get away with the spelling issue

I do know other adult dyslexic who have had major problems with depression and self confidence because of there dyslexia, but they were made to feel that they were failing by their parents..But I am lucky as my upbring was brilliant ( very proud of my parents here LOL).

so this is why I say yes try and get help from schools.. but make learning a joy at home and try not to get stressed about it.
As far a DS1 goes.. I am helping him all I can.. and am seeing the school next week to see even if the only thing we can do is for him to be allowed a little extra consideration in exams on time for him to read the questions, as this will bring down his stress level to hopefully the normal exam nerves!. LOL.