Without meaning to sound smug.....

[alfiesbabe]

(well ok just a little bit!) I'm interested to discover that our local 6th form college has 9 students with Oxbridge offers, our local state school has 4 and the private school where dh teaches has....2. What's going on here?? Is the tide turning at last? State school quotas?? I'm intrigued. I've sounded out DH and a significant number of the private school students were turned down. He describes them as very much conventional oxbridge candidates - ie predicted straight As/appropriate amount of sport and music involvement etc. Having said that, I taught a couple of the 6th form college pupils when they were at 11-16 level, and they are extremely bright and predicted straight As. DH also said it isnt just an oxbridge thing - some of his pupils are getting a similar response from Durham, Bristol etc.
I don't want this to become a private/state debate - I'm just intrigued by this.

Scary - I'm agreeing with you!! It would be ridiculous for the Government to prevent people from going to University because their parents have a degree! Equally, it is ridiculous that 40% of oxbridge students are from private schools, because my understanding is that top universities want the really highly intelligent students - and these are not found exclusively in private schools!! Private schools may have a longer tradition of establishing links with oxbridge and coaching for oxbridge, but that's a totally separate matter - it doesnt create highly intelligent students. I am simply talking about a level playing field at the point of entry to higher education.

I always end up saying this on the Oxbridge threads - as a former state-school Oxbridge student - but it's worth repeating.

The proportion of state/private who are given places at Oxbridge is almost exactly the same as the proportion of state/private in the total number of applicants (not as in the country as a whole).

This indicates to me that the Universities' admission system is fair, and that the problem, if there is one, needs to be addressed at application stage.

Interesting UnquietDad - so maybe things are beginning to change and this is the early stages. I'm sure a lot of state school students just dont see oxbridge as a possibility, which is a shame

No, you're right, they don't. They may also have teachers and/or parents who have a chip on their shoulder about the place - think it is full of "snobs" and "toffs" etc.

I do admire some of your optimism. In spite of the odd exception, things are NOT starting to change. If you read the article I linked earlier you will see that it is still the case that 40%+ students at Oxbridge are from private schools. This when only 7% of students are educated privately. There is no evidence that things are changing at all. And, in fact, quite a lot of evidence that students from deprived backgrounds and certain ethnic groups are more likely to choose to stay at home while at university which is exacerbating class/ethnic divisions in our universities.

Trouble is, 40% isnt going to exactly dispel that myth is it UnquietDad!! Actually I've met very few people who really think it's full of 'toffs' - most people I know realise life isnt Brideshead for most Oxbridge students

'The fact that your parents paid school fees is not impressive.' was the bit that I found snotty.

I've never seen why students shouldn't aspire to Oxbridge, irrespective of where they went to school, so for me the whole private/state school Oxbridge thing is a non starter. If your grades are good enough you'll do it. If 40% of the Oxbridge admission is from private schools, then the other 60% who get in go to state schools or sixth form colleges perhaps?

However, my Gran and Dad lived in Cambridge, and I've lived and worked there, and my MIL was brought up in Oxford, so neither place holds much mystique for me.

It's not about links with Oxbridge, AB. Private school students get awarded places because they do well on their exams and are poised in interviews. It's got nothing to do with who they know.

there is definately a prejudice against oxbridge from state school pupils, many do not feel they are good enough to keep up with the finances and lifestyles of the other students there. Whilst i know this is not totally true it put me off applying because i ddint want that pressure on top of trying to get a degree. I get enough stick at manchester for not going to a grammar/private/single sex school.

'The fact that your parents paid school fees is not impressive.' was the bit that I found snotty.

Er... are you saying that it is impressive then?

UD, like you I am ex oxbridge/comprehensive school.

I make a point of encouraging bright students that I teach to apply.

When they say 'But it is full of posh people'

I say, 'What? Like me!'

Which gives them a laugh and makes them re-think it a bit

that's really good mb that they have a real life example they can relate to. There's just not enough about though! I've read recently about the new scheme putting very bright competent Oxbridge NQTs into low achieving comprehensives which is a real move forward.

AB yes it is impressive for those who make sacrifices to do so, including putting their child's needs before their own.

Incidentally, do you think the bright competent Oxbridge NQTs will hack it in a low achieving comprehensive?

I wouldnt use the word 'impressive'. For many people school fees arent a huge sacrifice. For other people it might be, but I still wouldnt describe it as 'impressive'. And there are many many more who may well be very impressive people in very worthwhile jobs who will never be able to afford school fees.
In response to your question about the Oxbridge NQTs - I don't know them personally so I have no idea. The article I read focused on one woman who certainly sounded excellent - there was no questioning her dedication - but without seeing them in action I wouldnt presume to say!

40% from the 6 - 8% who go to private school. Pretty good going for the private schools. Much the state system can earn from them. Also we don't pay fees to buy exam results of university entrance. We pay also for life long advantage, good all rounded education, sports, etc Furedi was writing in today's paper about why he pays for his son who is 12 and mentions all those things, sport, competition etc etc. Even when people get to 40 or 50 you can still often tell they had the better education the private sector provides whether it's just better spelling and grammar or knowledge of history and classics. It's a life long advantage in all kinds of areas. Would be worth paying double the price we pay to secure it.

MB, UQD and others - what does it take to be an Oxbridge candidate? (apart from grades!)

What was your interview like?

God, you really are like a reformed smoker. That was funny.

Are you making up for lost time alfiesbabe?

Because you know, you don't sound smug exactly, but something else.

"Even when people get to 40 or 50 you can still often tell they had the better education the private sector provides whether it's just better spelling and grammar or knowledge of history and classics."

Xenia - you haven't met my dh then!

Actually Cambridge/Oxford can be great places to go for those without much dosh (eg me). Because (some of) the colleges themselves have lots of money they can afford to provide relatively cheap in-house accommodation that you can't always get if you have to hire a house from a landlord.

is it true that private school applicants will come across better at oxbridge interviews?
and if so, can state school applicants be groomed (for want of a better word) for interview?

ahundredtimes - I'm not sure what point you're trying to make!! But FGS try to make your mind up and come out with it. I don't mind sounding a little smug (as an ex-comp student myself and a lifelong teacher in state sector!) and I said as much in the OP. if you want to read other things into it then fine, but snidy little comments serve no purpose!

Well they do, they amuse me and that is MOST important.

Oh it's just you are always starting these threads, and going on about how your son moved from private to sector, and how now your husband is, and you bang on and on and it always sounds a bit like you are protesting too much to be honest.

Sugar - sure, any student who is bright enough can be groomed (!) for interview. I'm not sure exactly to what extent that's an issue though.

My interview was, tbh, mildly hilarious.

I was left wing at the time. Very left wing and politically active. My school insisted that I apply. I felt that Oxbridge was the root of all inequality in the educational system! I didn't really want to go. My headmaster refused to sign my ucca form until I did (I'm not kidding!)

The collage I applied to was very not left wing. The men who interviewed me were utterly polite and charming. At one point they asked me 'Why did you apply to us, don't worry we are not trying to find out if your grandfather came here'

To which I replied 'He was working as a miner at 12, so I doubt that you would have wanted him!'

When asked how I found the papers I told them they were on the table waiting for me, which was mostly nerves and a little bit of bolsyness!

I was very balanced at that point in my life, I had a chip on both shoulders!

They asked me all sorts of things to see if I could think on my feet and work things out from scratch.

Mt Dphil tutor specialises in selecting able students, what they are most interested in (she says) is how ell students cope with being told that their answers are wrong ie, can they absorb new information quickly and work with it

What the collage wanted in the year I went was very strong minded woman, as it was the first year it went mixed. I was such an arsy little shit at the time (just at the time my dh would ask! ) I was just what they wanted!

It was fantastic, I loved it there and had the time of my life. I spent 4 years arguing the toss with people who came from wildly different backgrounds to me. What a place, what a gift.