If you're planning to have kids, think carefully before living in a rural area

user1477391263 · 2023-12-17T11:53:41+00:00

About a tenth of all councils are at risk of bankruptcy and the spiralling cost of delivering children to school by taxi has been noted as one of the factors. We've already seen more than one bankruptcy this year. The finances on this are going to get very ugly very quickly over the next few years. I don't really have any practical advice or suggestions other than "Think carefully before buying a house in a village, and be prepared to have to move house if you child turns out to have challenges that require a special school." Rural bus services will probably mostly evaporate as well - they cost a fortune to run. [[https://www.countycouncilsnetwork.org.uk/spiralling-send-transport-budgets-threaten-financial-sustainability-of-englands-largest-councils-report-reveals/ Spiralling SEND transport budgets threaten financial sustainability of England’s largest councils, report reveals - County Councils Network]]

tescocreditcard · 17/12/2023 11:55

Most village schools have already closed anyway due to the declining birthrate.

But yes, living in a village + children don't mix at all.

LolaSmiles · 17/12/2023 11:55

Children, including children with SEN and disabilities, have a legal entitlement to access a suitable education.

What is it with threads and articles at the moment that seem to boil down to: "look at all the money disabled children cost" / "look councils can't sustain educating certain groups of children "?

Edit to add: This is what decades of austerity has created! It's been a political choice for years and now we're seeing the effects and it's suddenly "we can't afford to deal with vulnerable children/ certain children are a bit financially inconvenient"

rorret · 17/12/2023 11:56

What are those of us who live rurally and don't have a choice supposed to do? I didn't move here, I was born here.

rorret · 17/12/2023 11:56

Also, the UK is more than just England - have you any data for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales?

Spacecowboys · 17/12/2023 12:00

I much prefer raising my kids in a rural location. Yes transport links are rubbish but there are lower crime rates etc. I doubt I’d have let my kids ‘play out’ if we were in a city when they were younger. No regrets.

AppleKatie · 17/12/2023 12:03

What? Don’t live in a rural area and have a hypothetical child because if that child has SEN you might contribute to bankrupting the council?

are you serious?

no didn’t think so.

vidflex · 17/12/2023 12:04

I'm not rural but I do have a dc in specialist school. They get transport in the form of a taxi too and from school. Two other pupils local to our area travel with her. I was absolutely gobsmacked to find out recently that the council is paying 150 per child per week for this transport!. So I'm not surprised this is putting a lot of financial strain on the councils.

Daisies12 · 17/12/2023 12:05

Totally agree. So many village schools are closing. And it’s unfair for a teen to have to get a lift all the time and have no independence or exposure to the realities of life you see in a big town or city

rorret · 17/12/2023 12:06

Daisies12 · 17/12/2023 12:05

Totally agree. So many village schools are closing. And it’s unfair for a teen to have to get a lift all the time and have no independence or exposure to the realities of life you see in a big town or city

So what should those of us who already live rurally do?

Should there just be no farms?

Original poster

user1477391263 · 17/12/2023 12:15

rorret · 17/12/2023 11:56

What are those of us who live rurally and don't have a choice supposed to do? I didn't move here, I was born here.

You.... have to live where you were born? I'm confused. Are you a 19th century Russian serf posting through a timewarp?

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh. But the realities of LA finances are actually quite scary. Stuff can be deemed statutory, but if they literally do not have the money, it's not clear HOW LAs are actually going to be able to do this stuff. Most likely they will just find ways to drop it by stealth. The reality is that rural areas are always going to be worse for providing services, and this is only going to get worse as LA budgets are increasingly strained by aging populations.

For the cost of several years' worth of taxis, you could, like, buy someone half of a house in town. The taxi thing isn't really a sustainable way to do things.

Same story with the elderly and non-drivers. If someone can't drive, I can only suggest moving. Rural bus services are disappearing. In the country where I live (not the UK), the government is now quite openly pursuing denser-living strategies where they are basically telling older people in straggly outlying rural areas to move to more centralized places where services can be provided to them more cheaply, because "With the best will in the world, people, We Do Not Have The Money. The services are going to wither away, so move house while you still can."

It's shit, I get it. I also don't really have any other suggestions or solutions.

OP posts:

twistyizzy · 17/12/2023 12:18

Don't regret living rurally and sending DD to the village primary school at all. Lots of outdoors based activities, surrounded by nature and a lovely nurturing family environment. We got private school sized classes for free.
DD able to play out in fields (owned by friends' parents before anyone starts) from being small. Wouldn't have swopped this for urban living for anything.

TheInfusionist · 17/12/2023 12:19

What absolute shit you're talking

Original poster

user1477391263 · 17/12/2023 12:19

rorret · 17/12/2023 12:06

So what should those of us who already live rurally do?

Should there just be no farms?

Show quote history

That's a bit different, but only a minority of people living rurally in the UK work in agriculture, forestry, fisheries, mining and the like.

Every single rural dweller that I know personally either commutes into the nearest town, works from home or is retired.

OP posts:

rorret · 17/12/2023 12:19

user1477391263 · 17/12/2023 12:15

You.... have to live where you were born? I'm confused. Are you a 19th century Russian serf posting through a timewarp?

Sorry if that sounds a little harsh. But the realities of LA finances are actually quite scary. Stuff can be deemed statutory, but if they literally do not have the money, it's not clear HOW LAs are actually going to be able to do this stuff. Most likely they will just find ways to drop it by stealth. The reality is that rural areas are always going to be worse for providing services, and this is only going to get worse as LA budgets are increasingly strained by aging populations.

For the cost of several years' worth of taxis, you could, like, buy someone half of a house in town. The taxi thing isn't really a sustainable way to do things.

Same story with the elderly and non-drivers. If someone can't drive, I can only suggest moving. Rural bus services are disappearing. In the country where I live (not the UK), the government is now quite openly pursuing denser-living strategies where they are basically telling older people in straggly outlying rural areas to move to more centralized places where services can be provided to them more cheaply, because "With the best will in the world, people, We Do Not Have The Money. The services are going to wither away, so move house while you still can."

It's shit, I get it. I also don't really have any other suggestions or solutions.

Show quote history

I'm disabled. Not a 19th century Russian serf posting through a timewarp.

I have a support network here. My carers are here and set up for me and it works well, my doctor and physio and district nursing team are a mile up the road and are brilliant.

Yes, I have to go an hour to the hospital when I have an appointment, but I'd have to do that anyway from a lot of places.

I had to live here when my kids were young as I needed to get them to school and be close enough for them to see their dad (he is a farmer).

I can't move - I wouldn't be able to afford to buy a house in the nearest city. I also have adaptations to my house that would be costly to replicate, and I can't afford that.

So no, I can't move.

How bloody rude of you.

rorret · 17/12/2023 12:20

user1477391263 · 17/12/2023 12:19

That's a bit different, but only a minority of people living rurally in the UK work in agriculture, forestry, fisheries, mining and the like.

Every single rural dweller that I know personally either commutes into the nearest town, works from home or is retired.

Show quote history

My ex is a farmer.

His family are all farmers.

Have been for generations.

That's kind of how it works?

MyopicBunny · 17/12/2023 12:22

The OP has a thing about children with SEN being given transport by councils. How about you stop voting Tory and then the councils wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

twistyizzy · 17/12/2023 12:23

user1477391263 · 17/12/2023 12:19

That's a bit different, but only a minority of people living rurally in the UK work in agriculture, forestry, fisheries, mining and the like.

Every single rural dweller that I know personally either commutes into the nearest town, works from home or is retired.

Show quote history

But they still have DC who need to go to school

TeenDivided · 17/12/2023 12:24

How about:

Build more special schools so there are actually enough schools to meet needs, and with the added bonus there will probably be one closer?
Kids with SEN are as entitled to an education as anyone else and to transport if their nearest appropriate school is a distance away.

Councils need to find the money for statutory obligations.

PickAChew · 17/12/2023 12:27

Living in a city is no guarantee that a child with SN will get a space locally. The SS less than 10 minutes walk from my house didn't have a suitable place for Ds2 either in year 7 or year 12. He gets a taxi to a nearby small town every day.

We're also lucky to be able to afford to live in my city. House prices are much higher that the wider county, rented houses are scarce and expensive. Telling people to just move is often asking the impossible.

GodspeedJune · 17/12/2023 12:27

We live in a village.

My DC can go into a private school sized class at a state school.

Children here play safely outside, there is a real community spirit.

I am always given a same day doctors appt for my DC.

No nasty pollution in our lungs.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 17/12/2023 12:32

But yes, living in a village + children don't mix at all.

Massive generalisation. I only lived in villages as a child, as did dh, as have our dc. They went to a lovely village primary school and could walk to their friends' houses safely. For secondary they got the school bus. If there had been no bus, they could have cycled, or we could have taken them.

HobnobsChoice · 17/12/2023 12:40

I work in education in a city. We also provide taxis for children with EHCPs to get to school. Some of them travel within the city but it's still 10 miles or so each way due to their closest special schools not being suitable. Others travel to another area for suitable provision. The LA also has minibuses where a large number of children from one postcode are all travelling to the same school. It's not just a rural issue.
I live in a semi rural area. Children here travel over 3 miles just to high school as a minimum. For special schools it's between 5 and 35 miles depending on need.
It's also significantly cheaper to buy or rent here than in the city I work in. If the 10,000 people/approx 6000 households here moved into the city then a) this little town would be a ghost town and b) the city prices would shoot up.

Why is OP so focused on the cost of provision for children with SEN? OP doesn't even live in the UK.

rorret · 17/12/2023 12:42

This will blow your mind op.

There's minibuses here that pick up the primary aged kids from the end of their lanes and take them all to school.

Not even just the SEN kids.

Ineedanewsofa · 17/12/2023 12:45

This is such a weird thread - most people who live rurally have taken travel into account if they’ve got kids/are planning to have kids, surely? It was one of the biggest things we talked about before moving, basically signing ourselves up for driving everywhere as public transport is crap. OP writes as though those who live rurally are suddenly shocked by the lack of services, as if folks think it’s exactly the same as a city but with cows…

BingoMarieHeeler · 17/12/2023 12:45

rorret · 17/12/2023 12:06

So what should those of us who already live rurally do?

Should there just be no farms?

Show quote history

My experience growing up in the countryside was a @Daisies12 described too. Obviously there needs to be farms, and farmers have kids. Nobody is saying there is no need for farms, or for you to move. Two things can be true at once - farms are in the countryside, and countryside councils are having trouble funding school transport.

If you do want to move away from the countryside however, (tbh it sounds like you do - you sound quite upset) then… do? Just because you were born there doesn’t mean you have to stay there.