PISA 2022

[user1477391263]

Is anyone else reading the results?

England has done well again - huge improvement since 2009 though there does seem to have been a bit of a drop since COVID. Frustrated though I am with this wretched government, improving educational attainment is one thing that they do actually appear to have achieved during this period. England is notable for the success of both first and second generation immigrants, very different from most European countries.

Scotland and Wales are continuing to sink. Whatever they are doing over there isn’t working. Oz isn’t doing too well either. The US likewise.

China’s scores (they tested students from four provinces last time) don’t seem to have been reported. Perhaps there are doubts about the veracity of the data (wouldn’t surprise me).

If their main education language is Welsh, that would make sense for them to take the test in Welsh.

But honestly, when kids only do school in a language and don’t get any or much home input in that language (which will be the case for a lot of or perhaps the slight majority of kids in Welsh Medium), the odds are that their vocabulary and so on will be thinner than would be the case if they were were getting home input as well, unless parents are making deliberate efforts to counter this.

We are a bilingual family and have seen a lot of this, especially among people who think that kids are “magic sponges” when it comes to language and therefore tend not to be mindful of the need to watch out for and fill in language/vocab gaps in both languages.

The pandemic will have further reduced kids’ exposure to the language.

It's the same in Ireland for those attending Irish medium schools. Leaving cert exams are taken in. Irish if attending a gaelcholáiste

It would be interesting to know if there was the option of taking the test in Irish.

As far as I understand the PISA breakdown for Scotland, they did not have the option of taking the test in Gaelic. It notes that 2 schools were excluded based on their language of instruction, and I presume that one of those would have been Sgoil Gàidhlig Glaschu.

It would be interesting to know. Welsh medium schools educate an increasing proportion of welsh pupils too- much more than Irish medium https://ansionnachfionn.com/2017/07/11/welsh-medium-educated-is-boosted-while-irish-medium-education-is-blocked/

That was my first question too.
But having taught in English schools for many years I wonder if the reason that was my first question was because I'd been conditioned by the English education system! Everything in English schools (testing, curriculum, ofsted, the teacher training landscape) is geared up to essentially game a system. Michaela school, where pupils take far fewer GCSEs to maximise their Progress 8 scores, is a good example.

So it makes the idea of a school making a decision on wider considerations (taking PISA in Welsh for continuity and to demonstrate valuing the Welsh language even at the expense of high scores) seem baffling.

I think English schools teach in one language so no decision to make. No doubt most countries use their “home” language. Where there’s more than one, I would have thought first language used by the majority of dc was best. It might be the Welsh prefer Welsh over English (I’m assuming more speak and use English), and that’s their choice, and accept results for Pisa could be better.

Jerrim suggests that the decision to take the test in Welsh was one made by the schools. And if they are Welsh medium or bilingual schools, I can see why.
Jerrim links to an earlier article of his which assesses the same issue. He points out that it may be a translation issue - I.e. is it everyday or literary Welsh?

But perhaps as the OP notes it may show some weaknesses in Welsh medium. Don't forget that this test does not distinguish between those who only speak/use Welsh in school and those who use it at home as well as in school. I think the Welsh examination system is much more nuanced.

Welsh medium can get controversial and I've seen it produce some very polarized responses. As a PP suggests, those who value Welsh for cultural and social reasons may to an extent be fine with somewhat lower PISA etc. results as a result of this.

I do think that if Wales wants to get serious about education, it needs to accept that balancing two languages requires being more switched-on than would otherwise be the case. I'm just speaking from my experience, as I live in a non-English speaking country and I and most of my friends have bilingual children. I would say that kids, parents and teachers need to put in extra hours and the school system needs to focus on a content/knowledge-rich approach that focuses on building a strong vocabulary in both languages, to make sure there are no gaps. I'm not sure that the direction Wales has moved in (wishy-washy skills-based stuff and "let the children play all day" etc.) is sufficient.

I agree with all this until the last sentence which is a bit straw man.
Lack of centrally prescribed content (I.e. a syllabus or 'and another thing' curriculum which anyone will tell you is overstuffed in England) is not the same as lack of content. It's just schools and clusters can decide the content. The research-based knowledge/skills argument goes that you need a focus on content to develop skills- not that every detail of curriculum should be set by government. That's totally consistent with the curriculum for wales- my local comp is keeping its focus on subject specifialism for example and was praised by Estyn. None of the primaries near me are anything like 'play all day' - all do systematic phonics and the same amount of play in R/Y1 as in England. It's the top down system that has changed, not the teaching and learning.

Agree on Welsh though. Ireland has a very different social contract between home and school. Bilingual education without that huge effort at home is such a challenge, and the jury's out on whether its worth it.

As MFLs are dropping like a stone in England, we know dc aren’t keen and don’t put in the effort. It must be a struggle in Wales for many.

I think the immersion approach in Wales is pretty different to MFLs and parents who choose WM probably are motivated to encourage the children to learn Welsh. But I do think it’s going to be hard to develop a really strong vocab and the ability to read complex texts in a language that you are only doing at school and not elsewhere, which will be the case for many WM kids. That’s not a reason for not educating kids in Welsh, but it may be a reason for being mindful of kids’ weaker areas and deliberately working on them. I’m not confident that that’s going on in Wales. It does not have a history of being super hot on education stuff generally.

@user1477391263 I think you are right but for many English born/speaking dc without a choice of schools, this could be problematic. A reason to avoid Wales for some quite possibly.