Mr salles :can we trust him? Dd said he's way off in macbeth?

[LeavesinAutumn]

Whatever are his credentials?

I think this might be an interesting divide between the teachers on this thread who clearly know a lot more than the parents. I fall into the parent category but I also walked Ds through all the past papers with the mark schemes, read the examiner's reports and tested him so I was fully involved. See below.

@Piggywaspushed Ds was a grade 4 as in scraped the lowest grade 4 you could get in year 11 November mocks for English lit but a grade 9 in everything else non English. He was also a 5 in language so low for him. He relied heavily on Mr Salles for English Lit from both YouTube and his books. Language they didn't do AQA but Educas/WJEC so we turned to Stacey Rae for that and another Youtube teacher.

@MrsHamlet in reference to the above and the fact that Ds did indeed parrot Mr Salles for both Shakespeare, A Christmas Carol and the Power and Conflict poetry and got a grade 8. So we are most grateful to Mr Salles for that.

But Ds did study each poem, each scene, each chapter of all the content so he was knowledgeable but Salles helped him know what to write about it. He did work his arse off even though he hated every minute of it. Let's face it they are 15 or 16 years old, they are not coming out with anything ground breaking or new, they are trying their best to get level 6 and hit all the AOs. I like the fact that Salles addresses why Paris is killed at the end of Romeo and Juliet. Certainly an interesting take. Oh and I hate Bruff.

@LeavesinAutumn Of course he is writing with King James in mind, you have to consider the context in which any of the plays, books or poetry is written. I think because my children also studied History and Elizabethans they were taught that "theatre" was something that started as travelling company of actors who performed inside wealthy people's homes. Under Elizabeth The Theatre (later rebuilt as The Globe) became a permanent place to house entertainment and affordable by most. The Puritans were wanting it all shut down and they had a heavy influence in London. King James just followed 45 years of Elizabeth, got to keep the King sweet.

@toomanypillows I don't think the toxic masculinity is looking at Shakespeare through a 21st Century lens for GCSE level, I think it is pointing out the role of women from wealthy families at that time, their lack of power, sold to the highest bidder, only good for marriage and creating more babies. Personally I wouldn't have encouraged Ds to use the term toxic.

In terms of "toxic masculinity" my meaning was that parroting that as a phrase without delving into what it means, is unhelpful as it doesn't capture the nuance at all of the concepts in the early modern era, and using current terminology to describe something of a different era will only demonstrate that a student has been looking at it with a contemporary eye. Of course it can be used, but it needs proper interrogation which isn't going to happen in a gcse paper.
Students can use the idea of what it means to argue their point, but the use of the terminology (as I put in quotation marks) doesn't demonstrate understanding at all, because it only relates to our contemporary inference and not Shakespeare's intent.

“Testina
I'm sorry to have triggered you by my post.
I keep forgetting this is mn after all and posters can get riled over a donut. “

And yet, you didn’t forget that MN is the place where when you are legitimately called out, the go to is to accuse the poster of having been triggered? 🤣

Forebear to judge, for we are sinners all.
(Shakespeare, btw 😉)

Seriously: I don’t see how you can start a thread complaining about Mr Salle’s inaccuracy, when you can’t report what he has said, and don’t know the play.

I have often thought that teachers must feel very put out when a parent credits Mr whoever for a child passing when they only say what the teacher has been saying for 2 years already.
(Must check whether anyone does youtube on functional skills English).

Love Macbeth. And delighted my DD can quote it despite having missed studying it at school.

Seriously: I don’t see how you can start a thread complaining about Mr Salle’s inaccuracy, when you can’t report what he has said, and don’t know the play.

^^this!

@TeenDivided ed I agree and I did actually write a massive email to the school who I felt did everything they could to help their students pass for lots of subjects with specific reference to each teacher. For English though Ds just didn't get the way his teacher taught it. We were lucky enough that the school had specific evenings for GCSE subjects we could attend and we had a different English teacher and Ds felt that she explained it better than his teacher had done in lessons.

I have also privately messaged Mnetter teachers who helped me with both my children.

@toomanypillows do you mark GCSE papers? I think that is in the mark scheme, to look at when it took place and what we compare it to now. ie Lady Macbeth AO3 ideas about power and how it is achieved, ideas about the role of women, and contemporary reception toward Lady M's behaviour so they do have to reference today.

I wouldn’t use the term ‘toxic masculinity’.

The play does raise the question of what it means to be a man:
Duncan - man of thought and sensibility, but inactive and naive.
Macbeth - man of both thought and action but also naive, and eventually emotionless.
Macduff/Malcolm - men of thought, wisdom, sensibility, emotion and action?

It’s an incredibly nuanced play.

For top marks, characters need to be discussed as concepts.

Well, Lady M's womanliness is one of the themes of the play if that's what you mean.....

Don’t think it’s a good idea to attempt Shakespeare by shortcuts. Read the play. Try to see it performed to get a better understanding (literature graduate) x

Macbeth is a brilliant GCSE text. It's got a strong plot, lots of themes and motifs, blood, gore and murder! Witches and kings. Usually possible to see it being performed and filmed versions.
You can get a decent grade with some effort but using a handful of resources - lots of kids use the YouTube videos and they are useful. Don't rely on those alone though if you want higher grades.

No I don't mark GCSE papers. I used to be an English teacher in a school, but now I'm a professor which is obviously wildly different.
My point wasn't to do with the concept - it was to do with the phrase "toxic masculinity" and applying it to a time before it was a concept. Absolutely the idea should be discussed and referenced - my issue is by bandying these phrases around, students use them as a catch-all without understanding what they mean and without having the word count to interrogate.
I would always start from the play and only add in advice from youtubers once understanding is already secure

@toomanypillows the GCSEs were overhauled in 2017 so it may be different to when you taught it and as I said I am sure Salles marks papers. Today we would call 1600's male behaviour toxic masculinity though which is why Salles has apparently said it. My sons didn't study Macbeth and neither have I, I know very little about it and haven't watched Salles on Macbeth. Mine did patriarchy in Romeo and Juliet and the role of men. It opens with bawdy sex talk and a fight. They have to reference how it would be perceived today so using a modern reference is fine. But I am just a parent who spent 5 years going over past papers and mark schemes for English lit, not a teacher. Ds2 only got his 8 because he repeated what teachers (Salles) had said. He will tell you that himself especially when it came to poetry. I know because I helped him prepare the flash cards for it.

As for the concept of toxic masculinity this has been covered in their PSHE classes anyway, I think probably more so now with Andrew "Famous Gallery" (you can't write his name without a bat signal going up and icels coming on to defend him) being prevalent in schools.

I haven't a clue who Mr Salle is but if your daughter is studying Macbeth this year, she really ought to have read it by now. It is one of the shorter Shakespeare plays.

No, I was teaching until 2022 - whilst I was doing my doctorate.
I feel like I'm not making my point very clearly but it's great to have the conversation, thank you

@MrsJellybee is that because of Liz 1st... Heirs...

Some fabulous responses thank you.

@Piggywaspushed I think it was last night I dreamed of the witches but I will double check later.

Salles said its a quote often missed.

Dd is currently 7/8 so we do want to go for a 9

Was this at the Globe? Because my parents went to see it this summer and said it was some awful modernised interpretation with actors in jeans and using mixers and some rubbish stuff like that.

@Testina.. Because it's asking a question rather than calling some one out. Not that it matters.

It's an investigation whether to continue to listen to Mr salles on macbeth.

People could come on and say... Steer clear he makes mistakes he's rubbish or... Yes my child did very well watching his stuff.
Which by the way is how many posters have responded.

I did macbeth a very very long time ago. Dd is half way through. She has seen the play.

@toomanypillows would you agree with pp that Shakespeare wasn't feminist and doesn't use lady m to critique how poor women's lot is and how bad males could be?

@WigItAnyway I may have added the word toxic... I am not sure but salles definitely references masculinity being bad?..
Fabulous that your son was able to get an 8.

Wig seeing as you managed to help him, is there anything else you can suggest aside from Mark scheme and Mr salles etc.

@LeavesinAutumn have PMd you

LM doesn’t kill Duncan. She does manipulate Macbeth but not into murder - she intends to kill him herself but is unable to do it because he looks like her father. She also is not the one who plants the concept of murder in Macbeth’s head- he does that all by himself.

English teachers may sneer at them, but Mr. s Salles and Bruff definitely boosted my Dd's english lit grade.
Cheaper than hiring a tutor.

Shakespeare feminist? Have you ever read Taming of the Shrew?

I think again that feminism is a concept that didn't exist in early modern times, but my opinion is that Shakespeare wrote some formidable female characters. I personally think that we can argue the point that Shks may well have written in a subversive way - The Taming of the Shrew for example, whilst Katherine ultimately is "tamed" it is also fair to say that some ropey moral positioning is given to Petruchio. He's not very likeable, and it could be that Shakespeare was giving some anti-women rhetoric to an unlikeable character precisely to promote a supportive stance on women.

We'll never know, but I think the idea of Shks being a version of a "feminist" can be argued for in a few ways