How far do teachers’ safeguarding responsibilities stretch?

[Jill23]

A long time lurker, but very recent poster, would be very grateful for advice. Forgive me if this is vague as potentially very outing! If you are a teacher in a school for particularly vulnerable kids and you have a welfare responsibility (not DSL, but a defined role), how far do your responsibilities stretch? Basically, I’m looking at a situation where a teacher responsible for PSHE alongside his main subject has basically used that knowledge to bat off some complaints about his own child’s behaviour at another school. Is there an overriding responsibility to child safeguarding or is it specific to the institution you work for? Would be really grateful for any ideas anyone has.

I’m not sure how the 2 are linked? How is his safeguarding responsibility to the pupils he teaches linked to the way he responds to issues concerned with his own child’s behaviour? Assuming his child isn’t doing something illegal with the pupils he teaches.

This sounds utter nonsense. Obviously all parents have a duty to safeguard their own kids. This teacher has the same level of responsibility to his or her own child as any parent does. They do not have a responsibility to safeguard every child in the whole county. However, teachers do have some duties around the way they behave in general terms so they don't bring the profession into disrepute. Deal with it in your own school.

No OP.

Is there an overriding responsibility to child safeguarding

well, child safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility. Are teachers legally responsible for safeguarding every child in the country, even ones they don’t teach? No, that would be bonkers.

That possibly answers my question - maybe they’re not! But I was thinking about financial services - that chap who dodged a £6 train fare and was banned for life (on the grounds that if you can’t be honest with small amounts of your own money, you can’t be trusted with someone else’s). If you’re shown to disregard child safety for your own/family’s self interest, is it appropriate?

It depends by what you mean by disregard child safety.

if it’s criminal then yes, it possibly would have an impact. If it’s a matter of opinion? No.

So are you saying that their child's behaviour led to a safeguarding concern about another child who is not one of his pupils?

I don't see how PSHE subject leadership is linked to extra welfare responsibilities. Subject leadership is generally distinct from pastoral responsibility or school leadership.

There's no connection between somebody's parental responsibilities and their work responsibilities, especially if they don't teach at their child's school.

Yes. Exactly. Basically - his son has committed pretty awful acts of bullying (at least one of which possibly could be reported to the police). And then he’s used his own knowledge of the area to lie about it/encourage his son to lie about it to his son’s school.

Your vagueness is not helping here.

Safeguarding is about protecting children and vulnerable adults from abuse, including peer to peer abuse.

You are saying that there were concerns about his child's behaviour which were at a different school from the one he teaches at.

In which case it is the responsibility of the teachers there to keep the other kids safe from his kid while they are in school. Eg if his kid is hitting other children or sexually harassing them then the school needs to deal with it.

As a parent he should also step up and try to deal with the situation as well.

If it's more of a case of his kid is being disruptive in lessons etc then there is no safeguarding relevance at all.

You are saying that there were concerns about his child's behaviour which were at a different school from the one he teaches at..

Yes

As a parent he should also step up and try to deal with the situation as well.

As a parent, he’s using his professional knowledge to try to subvert the school’s actions to keep the other child safe.

Cross post.

He's not being a good parent but he's not failing in his safeguarding responsibilities in any way you can pick him up on.

That’s helpful, thanks @Octavia64 . Is he bringing the profession into disrepute if it can be proved he’s lying/encouraging his son to lie?

So do you mean it would be like a barrister defending his own child in court and using his own legal knowledge to get his child off with the crime ??

How can you prove it’s a lie? How do you even know it’s a lie?

I’m thinking about this one! Maybe - he knows he’s guilty and tells him what to say to persuade the jury not to convict?

The bar for bringing the profession into disrepute is incredibly low.

Lying on it's own definitely wouldn't be enough.

I suppose if he's lying about an incident of violence and he lies to the police then you might be getting there....

Usually people who are told they can't be teachers any more it's either sex workers who try to teach after or at the same time as doing sex work. Or have an affair with a pupil young enough for it be considered paedophilia.

How would PSHE subject leadership help him to lie or get his son to lie?

If his son is a bully and he isn't supporting the school, then that's poor parenting.

You seem to know an awful lot about the teacher, his son and the actions of his son's school. How can you be sure that you have all the facts?

News Flash

Lots of teachers are not great parents.

All parents - even those who are DSL themselves - make parenting errors. Because we are all flawed people who make mistakes.

None of these are stackable offences, if this is what you ate trying ymto imply.

For it to be considered stackable, the teachers child would need to be under a Child Protection Plan and even then its nit certain the LADO would do anything. It depends on the nature of the child protection issues raised.

I don't understand you OP. You'll need to spell it out.
You should be collating the evidence that his son is the culprit and has been bullying the victim by x/y/z.
It is human nature to defend or minimise your child's misbehaviour but teachers tend not to, having been on the other side of it.
I cannot think of ways you can weaponize PSHRE knowledge tbh, unless finding a loophole where the roles of offender/victim are reversed. Even so, actions are illegal or they're not and each student should be accountable for the consequences of theirs.

I'm not sure that knoweldge of safeguarding would enable you to lie any better about a situation where your child was a bully.

In terms of safeguarding, all professionals have a legal obligation to safeguard children and young people. Obviously they can’t be expected to do something for ‘every child in the country’, but the responsibility doesn’t necessarily end with the children at the school you work in. For example, if students in your class tell you about a child who does not attend your school, but is at risk of serious harm, then yes there is a duty to report this (as best as you can), despite them not being ‘your’ pupil.

It would depend on the specifics, but generally, trying to keep your own child out of trouble / minimise sanctions for poor behaviour would not constitute a safeguarding risk. Unless the parent is encouraging or enabling their child to harm another, then I don’t think there would be safeguarding concerns in that way. The parent’s knowledge or profession is irrelevant.

Teacher has managed similar allegations as part of his job. So he encourages his son to obfuscate/say he doesn’t understand what he’s doing wrong so that the school has to jump through hoops with their own policy - when he knows that his son is deliberately hurting another child. Sorry to be vague.

Unless the parent is encouraging or enabling their child to harm another

I suppose this is the point - he is, really.

“Teacher has managed similar allegations as part of his job. So he encourages his son to obfuscate/say he doesn’t understand what he’s doing wrong so that the school has to jump through hoops with their own policy - when he knows that his son is deliberately hurting another child.”

That’s not a safeguarding issue, it’s just a pain-in-neck-parent issue. Sadly schools are well practiced in dealing with such parents.