Pensions in private schools: TPS withdrawal

[Elthamjohn]

Has anyone gone through this? I am really worried that my school might be about to leave the TPS, and I just don’t know where to begin…

Would they offer an alternative? What have other schools done? How do you understand what a good deal is compared to the TPS?

@OrangeSofa1 sorry, my misunderstanding, you said 'without union support, everyone pretty much gave up' which I interpreted as the union withdrawing support. Was this NEU or NASUWT?

@Sewingmachine1 sorry if I wasn’t clear, basically their advice was to sign the new contract as they couldn’t advise members to hold out and be dismissed, as fire and rehire was the next step.They can’t advise members to technically lose their jobs. It was both unions working together.

This sounds so awful @OrangeSofa1. Can I ask what parents’ attitudes were?

@OrangeSofa1 understand, thanks. Was it suggested that staff returned under protest?

Just an update. Our school has offered a lower pay rise to those in TPS - union members are currently consulting on this. However they have said they will pay the increase l

That’s good @Notellinganyone . Can I ask what your pay awards have been like in recent years?

Is it reasonable to reduce pay awards?

Good outcome @Notellinganyone

I believe GDST went with this option @Elthamjohn. Approx 3.5% would offset the 5% rise in TPS contributions. It's an option to consider.

In our private school when they said they were looking at moving from TPS We had a wonderful Maths teacher who put the figures together & made a strong financial case to stay. We were then given option of staying or moving to Aviva. Some actually chose to move but think majority stayed .

@Beachcomber74 a financial case that the school could afford it, or that the staff would be badly affected?

@Sewingmachine1 That the school could afford it & as school has prided itself on high calibre of teachers if there was a big exodus it would have major implications on business model.

@Beachcomber74 thanks. This point is falling on deaf ears. Apparently no one will leave.

The point a lot of SLT are using is TPS might be financially viable now but will it be when VAT on school fees and consequence drop in pupil numbers and the anticipated rises in TPS employer contribution. As both of these are unknowns, it is very hard to argue that it is definitely affordable. It might be better concentrating your efforts to get a good alternative being offered, high % contribution, include death in service, medical retirement etc…

I don’t think death in service exists in dc schemes @OhBeAFineGuyKissMe . Am I wrong in thinking that?

Most defined contribution schemes offer a lump sum and/or income if the member dies before retirement.

It's not included in APTIS @Elthamjohn you have to pay extra/from your contributions.

@OhBeAFineGuyKissMe the possibility of vat on fees isn't a reason to leave TPS. It shouldn't even be in the discussion. Why would staff take a never ending cut now to protect the school from a possible future decline in numbers? If numbers decline, we'll have to make redundancies.

When I was involved in a similar push back against the withdrawal of TPS, I suggested that we drew up questions/points for a proposed DC scheme as well, just in case we ended up with one. It didn't come to that, but here they are, in case they're useful to anyone else:
#1 Formalising how TPS members should be consulted regarding the details of both the tender e.g. what the quotations should cover and the eventual choice of a scheme.
#2 Amount of employer’s contribution.
#3 Time period for which the agreed employer’s contribution would be fixed.
#4 Likely size of fees: a) for administration; b) for fund management; and c) for ongoing advice (annual). Advice from independent advisor (not the school one) was that teachers must invest their ‘pot’ actively unless they are to leave it to be invested in default funds (which might not be the best performing) and that they would find this hard to do without annual, individualised advice.
#5 Whether the DC scheme could offer green or ethical funds.
#6 Provisions (if any) for ill health retirement and other ancillary benefits [I guess death in service would go here] and what these would add to the cost of the scheme.
#7 Age at which benefits can be taken normally (does this vary between schemes?)
#8 Track record of schemes to be considered; choices made by other comparable schools or organisations.
#9 Commission payable to any broker who arranges the quotes or the chosen scheme itself, and who will pay this.
#10 Modelling of outcomes for different salaries and lengths of service based on the actual shortlisted schemes and in the context of each person’s accrued TPS benefits (modelling to be available minimum of 3 months before quote expires).
#11 Also suggested they considered the provision of general personal financial advice to teaching staff, covering more than just pensions. Possibly provided as an optional, taxable, benefit in the same way as some schools provide e.g. health insurance. This would be to help staff make the transition from TPS where desired, be a recruitment point for the school and help avoid inadvertent mis-selling.

I’m not saying I agree just that the school can agree that even if they can afford it now but they can’t afford it with their future models. That is very hard to argue against. Only those involved can tell the mood in the school but sometimes putting your energy into securing the best deal rather than trying to prevent it can be a better route.

I agree about trying to get the best deal, but my experience was it was very involved and a lot of staff were just completely baffled by the whole thing; defeatist even.

It is a very involved area of financial services, which falls squarely into the area of "scary" (involves thinking about things you'd rather not, like how long you'll live/be in good health) and "complicated" (involves finances which most teachers don't know a lot about, nor want to).

A peculiar aspect of it all too in a school is you spend a lot of your working life trying to encourage young people to have good values and work hard; trying to convince parents your school is the right choice because it has good values etc etc and then you are confronted with this very obvious evidence that the school considers you, the teachers, to be completely expendable.

I believe this is called "moral injury".

I mean I knew full well when I agreed to be a pension rep that I could lose my job over it and so it turned out. Not in an unfair dismissal kind of way, but once you've lifted that rug and looked underneath, you don't feel the same way about that institution.

@Elthamjohn - the school have been clear they won’t budge on this so we’ll see what happens. It’s a significant disparity.

@Phineyj you are absolutely right! This is our second round and it's as if some people have just woken up, though no one is defeatist. I just don't feel the same, we've had staff in tears, we've been patronised and talked down to, and, ultimately, we've been shown that we really don't matter.

I was in a meeting where a member of staff cried when she realised what the removal of the ill health retirement provision would mean for her and the family who depended on her. The meetings were held in small groups because the facilitating board members had concerns about social distancing. We had been teaching classes of students in small not particularly ventilated classrooms for months at that point. The board member seemed surprised that we planned to live on our pensions in retirement.

I never felt the same way about the place after that day.

Oh yes, and the assertion that we are 'only' losing £6-8 (or up to 20 for some younger staff) thousand pa🙄

I just thought I would check in on how everybody is doing with this TPS business? Is anyone striking?

Expect so. You?