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Education

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Are 1st Degrees getting easier to achieve?

96 replies

JellyPopz · 20/10/2023 07:51

I graduated in 2009 with a 2:1 which I was very happy with. Only a handful of people across my wider course achieved firsts.

Let year, an older but non-academic family member achieved a 2:1 but for a large part of their course they were on track for a first (I was shown their marks, it wasn't a fib).

I've noticed now in the last year or two on social media lots of people my age (late thirties) that are graduating, are achieving firsts.

I can think of two reasons that may be the case - 1. Older people have emote focus and drive if they return to study and 2. People may have had more time to get stuck into their courses during lockdown.

I'm definitely not here to take anything away from people getting firsts, I know they are still not given out like sweets. I've definitely noticed more people graduating with them and wondering if its coincidence, one of the reasons above, another reason or if parameters have been shifted?

OP posts:
whosaidtha · 20/10/2023 07:55

Just look at the statistics. In 2007 13% of degrees were firsts. In 2023 36% were firsts

Cubic · 20/10/2023 07:56

It depends on the uni and the cohort too. Eg somebody who achieves a 2.1 from Oxford with AAA course requirements is not the same as someone who achieves a 2.1 from Bolton with CCC course requirements.

mugboat · 20/10/2023 07:57

I can't stand it when people start slating those taking exams now, saying they're easier.

I did my UG 1999-2001 and my sister in law said that very thing to me then... I.e she is 9 yrs older than me and told me to my face hers was harder than mine...

So perhaps using this logic, by now, an UG could be obtained by an 11 yo?

A lot of nonsense.

I think if there are more 2.1s the teaching has improved due to the increase in evaluations and types of reporting HE has to do now... there were no student evaluations of modules at all when I was a student. They didn't care what we thought.

We were expected to just know how to study independently, having not done it before. Perhaps students today have proper guidance.

Cubic · 20/10/2023 07:57

That also wasn't a knock to Bolton uni, it's an example of how cohort can impact on learning.

Tiredmum100 · 20/10/2023 07:59

When I did my 1st degree, I was 21 and had a 2:2. A few years ago, I was late 37/38. I did a postgraduate diploma and had a distinction, which would have been a 1st, had it been a degree. Some people did the course as their degree 'top up'. For me, personally, as an adult learner, I cared far more. I put more effort into it. I understood the subject better as I'd been doing it for the last 15 + years. The 21 year old me was more interested in going out having fun, I guess.

mugboat · 20/10/2023 08:02

Should also add, older students tend to work harder/more efficiently than younger ones so achieve higher marks.

I speak from direct experience. I have done a Masters (was in my mid 30s when I started) and was a better student than when I was 18. I was B/C standard owing the effort I put in and now I get distinctions because I work really hard at it and actually enjoy studying.

Stroopwaffels · 20/10/2023 08:02

I graduated for the first time in the 90s and there were a handful of Firsts among the cohort of 250 of us who graduated on same day, around 4 or 5. I'd say 95% of people got a second upper or lower, a very few thirds, a very few firsts.

This does appear to have changed.

Woman2023 · 20/10/2023 08:06

I think it's a bit more competitive so students are trying to get higher grades. Even in the late 80s a 2.2 was less value than in the 70s for getting a good job.

But also, I do think firsts are easier to get. I got a 2.1 in the early 90s and a first in the 2010s in my degrees.

The marking criteria had become a lot more explicit by the 2010s, so it was easier to make the work fit the marking scheme.

So I would say a first then was equivalent to a 2.1 previously.

ruby1957 · 20/10/2023 08:06

from the Guardian? in 2020

The proportion of students awarded first-class degrees in England has increased by almost 90% over the past eight years, with four in five graduates leaving higher education with either a first or a 2:1.

I know it is anecdotal but just for comparison when I graduated in 1970 ONE student on my course obtained a first (out of > 50 students) and he went on to become a Professor

Of course there has been grade inflation - even the Guardian says so.

UnalterableSpaceCadet · 20/10/2023 08:08

The average of RG graduates that get a 1st or a 2:1 is about 88%, apparently.

EdithStourton · 20/10/2023 08:09

ruby1957 · 20/10/2023 08:06

from the Guardian? in 2020

The proportion of students awarded first-class degrees in England has increased by almost 90% over the past eight years, with four in five graduates leaving higher education with either a first or a 2:1.

I know it is anecdotal but just for comparison when I graduated in 1970 ONE student on my course obtained a first (out of > 50 students) and he went on to become a Professor

Of course there has been grade inflation - even the Guardian says so.

I'd agree.
DH has done a lot of recruiting over the years and says some firsts are meaningless now.

I did my degree in the 80s at a leading university which was one of the world's best for my subject area. Out of about 90 of us I think there were 4 or 5 firsts and certainly no more than 6. At least one of those went on to a stellar academic career.

Hearmenow23 · 20/10/2023 08:21

I was wondering how easy it is to cheat these days. I know a couple of dodgy people who can barely string a sentence together who have just got firsts. It is completely unbelievable.

DaphneMoo · 20/10/2023 08:26

Absolutely easier, I got a 2:2 in the early 90s, granted I partied lots but I have completed 2 post grad qualifications in the past 10 years and got As, which is an absolute nonsense. Marking criteria is much more explicit which does make getting a good mark much easier.

travelogue · 20/10/2023 08:29

When I graduated in 1994 there was a limit on the number of firsts - for the course my friend was on (not a huge number of students) he had to have a Viva as another student had the exact same score and only the one who then did best in the viva was awarded the first. That wasn't spelled out to them beforehand. So yes, I think it's become a bit easier to get one. Or at least the parameters have changed. I did a masters and got a distinction. One of the criteria was that you had to bring something new / original to the field - quite clear what was expected. We also had the marking criteria made available to us - not something I recollect from my undergrad degree.

IggysPop · 20/10/2023 08:32

I think university teaching has improved significantly in the last 20 years - including using the mark range correctly (lecturers marking out of 100 instead of 80 as used to be the case in the belief that anything 80+ had to include original content and not far off publishable quality). Assessment support is better too - especially 1:1 etc for academic writing.

Soft skills have declined somewhat. Though some universities are further ahead on that than others. It depends if students engage with the institution as a whole and opportunities or just ‘the course’. Fees are the whole funding package and so it is shame when it isn’t used.

Gnome134 · 20/10/2023 08:33

When I graduated in the mid 90's the degrees were awarded based on a distribution curve which meant only 2 people on each course could get a First. Vast majority got 2:1 or 2:2.

mugboat · 20/10/2023 08:33

DaphneMoo · 20/10/2023 08:26

Absolutely easier, I got a 2:2 in the early 90s, granted I partied lots but I have completed 2 post grad qualifications in the past 10 years and got As, which is an absolute nonsense. Marking criteria is much more explicit which does make getting a good mark much easier.

This means it's clearer for the students so that they know how to get good marks, doesn't mean it's easier to get these good marks.

By your own admission, you partied lots in the 90s hence getting a 2.2 when more recently you got As. If you hadn't partied so much and had a clearer marking scheme I imagine you would have got a better mark as an undergraduate.

mugboat · 20/10/2023 08:35

travelogue · 20/10/2023 08:29

When I graduated in 1994 there was a limit on the number of firsts - for the course my friend was on (not a huge number of students) he had to have a Viva as another student had the exact same score and only the one who then did best in the viva was awarded the first. That wasn't spelled out to them beforehand. So yes, I think it's become a bit easier to get one. Or at least the parameters have changed. I did a masters and got a distinction. One of the criteria was that you had to bring something new / original to the field - quite clear what was expected. We also had the marking criteria made available to us - not something I recollect from my undergrad degree.

You still need to be conducting original research for PG dissertations... that has not changed.

You don't need to do this for UG studies.

mugboat · 20/10/2023 08:39

EdithStourton · 20/10/2023 08:09

I'd agree.
DH has done a lot of recruiting over the years and says some firsts are meaningless now.

I did my degree in the 80s at a leading university which was one of the world's best for my subject area. Out of about 90 of us I think there were 4 or 5 firsts and certainly no more than 6. At least one of those went on to a stellar academic career.

This was written as an opinion piece and, by the author's own admission, includes anecdotal information.

If there are more students working harder and getting higher marks it doesn't necessarily mean something untoward is occurring and that the students are easily achieving 1sts left, right and centre.

It could mean that it's clearer how to get good marks and that education has improved.

There's also lots of online resources (e.g..YouTube) to help students to understand and master their subjects.

daffodilandtulip · 20/10/2023 08:39

In the 90s/00s, "everyone" went to uni because it was the thing to do. Now, there are a lot more options and it's a lot more expensive to go to uni. So only the more academic people are choosing to go, so grades will be higher, as the less able are preferring other routes.

Mouseplant · 20/10/2023 08:39

Degrees now cost more in terms of student loans and no grants, therefore students work harder.

mugboat · 20/10/2023 08:40

Tiredmum100 · 20/10/2023 07:59

When I did my 1st degree, I was 21 and had a 2:2. A few years ago, I was late 37/38. I did a postgraduate diploma and had a distinction, which would have been a 1st, had it been a degree. Some people did the course as their degree 'top up'. For me, personally, as an adult learner, I cared far more. I put more effort into it. I understood the subject better as I'd been doing it for the last 15 + years. The 21 year old me was more interested in going out having fun, I guess.

nailed it!
and same here

mugboat · 20/10/2023 08:41

whosaidtha · 20/10/2023 07:55

Just look at the statistics. In 2007 13% of degrees were firsts. In 2023 36% were firsts

stats alone do not prove it's easier, they just show that more people are getting firsts.

CoffeeWithCheese · 20/10/2023 08:41

Did my first degree at a uni much beloved on MN in the 1990s - got a very very high 2:1 and I did fuck all beyond the bare minimum if I'm honest (I am naturally very good with the academic stuff but I really did not do more than the last minute stuff and winged it).

Second degree at an ex-poly during the pandemic era - got a low first and I worked my fucking arse off solidly for the entire three years to get that.

Thing as well as the increase in percentages is - the increase in stakes is huge as well. My first degree was done back in the glory days of student grants - yes you had a loan, but it was minimal really and tuition fees weren't a thing so you were only graduating with a relatively small amount of debt... these days - if you are getting yourself that level into debt for your fees and maintenance loan - you're going to be much more inclined to make sure it bloody well counts.

mondaytosunday · 20/10/2023 08:45

Loads more people are going to university. Many more courses on offer. As pp says , getting a first from one uni is not necessarily equal to getting a first from another.
As for older people - oh let's think! 18-21 year olds, first time on their own, probably first proper relationships, hormones all over the place, insecure, not used to managing their own time. 30ish year olds: more mature, more able to focus, more determined to get their degree without distractions. I did so do on my undergraduate degree. I was top of the class for my masters ten years later.