If you have kids in private education, what is your school planning to do re VAT?

[Ladychaise]

I have two kids at a London independent school and currently just about scrape the cost of fees. Labour’s intention to add 20percent on the fees would make it impossible to keep them there, if all that cost goes to us - it is a worrying time.

The school’s bursar is being lovely but it’s very much a ‘let’s cross that bridge when we come to it’ take on it! I get that we don’t know for certain if Labour will get in or how fast they will implement this - but surely schools should be planning for this and working out how much of the VAT, if any, will be ‘covered’ by the school?

Aware there is a lot of uncertainty but does anyone else’s school have a plan in place? Thanks so much

It isn't on their latest priorities manifesto, so I still think there will be time for them to realise it isn't a vote winner. VAT on private schools is stated as the route through which they will raise funds for 6,500 additional teachers.

Also why do you think it 'isn't a vote winner'? The policy comes out well in focus groups.

I can imagine it does do well in focus groups if you omit the bursary and scholarships for FSM kids and don't compare it to the grammar sector that has funds coming out of the state pot.

Plus if you omit the 90,000+ kids with SEN in private schools. Or you omit that as soon as any DC leave private schools then the state has to fund their education.
It is popular because the questions are skewed to get a positive response.

twistyizzy makes a good point. There is a small private school near us which is some 30% of kids with SEN. It will be fun watching the local state schools accommodate all of their needs as well as squeezing in the other 70%.

It a complete shocker - if you live in the leafy parts of London the state secondary is excellent. A friend of mine is in Woking and her state secondary is 5*. They are super pleased with it. As are our friends in Muswell Hill.

Where we live (rural midlands) the state schools are poor due to low aspirations and lack of choice. Much easier to go for a state school when you live in an affluent area with good schools and plenty of grammar schools.

I shouldn't think the Labour front bench know the way from Hampstead and Islington to places like yours.

Given that private school admissions have dropped by 2.7% for this year then Labour’s figures are looking pretty shaky already. The IFS report that they base their calculations on predicted a 3-7% drop out rate. We’re nearly at the bottom end of that without the policy been introduced.

If the drop out rate >10% then the net income will be £0

Plus for every child thar leaves private school the state has to fund their place in state schools
Private schools save the taxpayer millions every year.

Are these extra teachers being recruited for England's schools only, or for schools in Scotland,Wales and N Ireland too?

I have two kids at an amazing London independent. My kids thrive there, we are delighted with the teaching and make massive sacrifices to send them there. We are already stretched, the fees have gone up year after year and the hit of VAT will make it impossible for us.

My plan is to pull them out for A-level and send them to one of the excellent state grammars - and many other parents in my position are planning to do the same. At their private school, the vast majority of pupils come out with majority 8s and 9s in GCSE - the results are far higher than at the local state comps. Therefore access to those brilliant state schools becomes even harder for less privileged pupils....

That's just sixth form but you see this play out massively for the 11plus also. Wealthy parents who are just slightly priced out of private pour their money into catchment houses or frantic tutoring so their pupils do get into those schools. Polarity worse than ever. No-one wins.

@pinkyellowtulip

What if they want to stay with their friends and the brilliant teachers you say you have? Why would your views trump theirs? Seems a very odd view to take when you think your school is very good

Just looked at the BBC reporting - the 6,500 figure applies to England only, due to devolved powers, assume Labour in each of those countries will make their own (Same? Similar? Entirely different?) pledges.

You can argue over the detail of the policy until the cows come home, the point is the policy is pretty popular with the electorate.

Because Labour have misrepresented the benefits of the policy and implied that private school parents are dodging tax. The electorate don’t know what they are voting for.

Precisely. Some posters on various threads still think that the issue is linked with charitable status. Too many people don’t understand the policy, or the likely consequences. Many people think it’s just a few very wealthy people having to pay a tiny bit more tax.

@TizerorFizz - I'm sure they would rather stay at the school and in all honesty, I would rather they stayed. HOWEVER, we won't be able to afford it. By the time my younger one reaches that stage we would probably be looking at fees of around 40k a year with the VAT hit and rises on top.

So 80k for sixth form, when the results are comparable at one of the grammars. It's not worth it, particularly when we have uni costs to think about also....

I am a little confused if VAT on private schools in England leads to funding supposedly for English teachers and Education is devolved, then do Labour in Scotland and Wales have to impose VAT on private schools or not?

This!!

I don't think VAT is a devolved tax? The devolved governments will presumably get a share of the tax raised to allocate to schools in their regions as midnightoncemore says above.

@pinkyellowtulip

I understand the financial issues but I didn't pick that up from your earlier post. Let's hope the grammar has spaces!

No, VAT is not devolved. If this policy doesn’t raise money but cuts into the Education budget do the devolved nations still get the remaining VAT. How will it work if there is a “loss” and more kids join the state sector? If only 3 per cent are private educated going forward, what then?

Then the state has to pay for them.

This is what we are doing to @pinkyellowtulip although DD has dyslexia so will need SEN help too. She is predicted all 7 and 8s at GCSE so far and has made some amazing friends for life. They are all aware of how lucky they have been to be in an all girls environment and be able to do subjects the local grammar doesn't.

My issue is she boards so I can work (single mother), so I will not be able to continue my job as it involves a lot of travel. I can't plan for much of the changes we will need to make until we have a GE date, which is frustrating.

We've discussed her leaving anyway and she is OK with the idea although sad to loose out on the friendships. Some kids have already left for grammar to "beat the rush".

I feel very sorry for those who live nowhere near grammar or decent comp schools.

Oh I'm not bothering to argue with it, it's how they have chosen to present it.

If they don't want to show it for what it really is, penalising MC parents who haven't been able to use SEN in the state sector and have made huge sacrifices for their kids, then that is on them. If people think this is socking it to the elite rather than giving them a power boost, that's on them.

That's an interesting question. I don't actually know how the education budget works. The government give each school a certain fixed amount per pupil, don't they?

But is there an additional budget which is used in a discretionary way to cover other costs, which would then be squeezed? What is that used for? Does it go directly to schools, do they have to apply for it?

Or would the education budget automatically increase to match the higher student numbers? (or perhaps not rise - due to birth rate changes - just not fall/leave more to share out per student)